191 Organized Chaos - Sustaining Your Prepper Group During SHTF

Tonight, Jeremy and I will talk about how to successfully sustain a large group of survivors at a Woodland Bug-Out location during an SHTF event.

You’re thinking… ahh… it’s easy. Provide shelter… Hunt for Protein… Use your LifeStraw… No Worries.

And you may be right, if it were you and a couple of friends.

But, that’s not what I said. You didn’t hear correctly, or you weren’t paying attention.

I said, LARGE group of survivors. Cuz that’s the reality of it. Oh, your group may be 4… 6… maybe 8… maybe 10 Preppers strong… But that’s not the extent of it.

When you factor in Kids, Family, and Friends. Your numbers grow exponentially.

You got 4 members in your group… 4 turns into 10… 8 into 18… and 10 group members might as well be 30 or more.

That’s the reality of it. The math will happen whether you want it to or not. 

You can make all the Laws and By-Laws for your group that you wan.

When SHTF happens. really happens. so bad, that you had to Bug-Out.

Human Nature. Compassion. Instincts. mixed in with all that chaos.

Translates to. Nothing. Going As Planned.

So, As Preppers, Survivalist… as Moms and Dads... as good neighbors and good friends. We Must Plan, in advance for this chaotic Mess of an SHTF Bug-Out Scenario.

It just so happens, that we have someone here tonight with the experience and training to inform us of the realities of sustaining a large group of people in this type of scenario.

And when I say Experience, I mean it.

Jeremy just got back from the woods, where he was on assignment to help train students in the United States Army Special Forces in scenario-based war-games.

I don’t want to say any more about it, but I will say this…

These soldiers, contractors, operators… are the real deal. All those bad-ass men and women you see on movies and tv shows… this is where they become, bad-asses. 

Bugging Out, is tough. sustaining a large group of people in dangerous circumstances, is tough.

There's a lot to talk about.

Let’s Get To It.

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Transcript

Good, good. all right. So tonight we're going to be talking about ah a bug out location scenario where up to at least 30 people, let's call it that, of all age groups,

00:30.26
Keith
are going to be bugging out in the woods. It's going to typical type of a scenario you would see in any kind of an SHGF apocalyptic type of movie or TV show, something like that.

00:43.23
Keith
But we happen to have an expert, Jeremy.

00:50.86
Jeremy
I don't know if I'd say I'm an expert, but...

00:51.01
Keith
oh well Well, here's the thing. You're fresh off a mission, and that mission might have some of the answers we're looking for.

01:02.11
Jeremy
Yeah. So, um, so I am an independent contractor on the side and, um the, one of the main contracts that I do is, it's a culminating exercise for special operations soldiers.

01:18.37
Jeremy
And, um it's heavily based off of an unconventional warfare scenario. So, these students go into a fictional country, um, here, you know, here in North Carolina, and they interact with a group of individuals who are, for lack of a better term, refugees, who have turned into a band of guerrilla fighters.

01:43.88
Jeremy
Um, so it's, uh, it's a 12 man, typically a 12 man team that'll come in they're, there role is to teach the guerrilla fighters how to fight and organize them into a fighting force and um you know all these different things but it's ah springtime right now and typically here in north carolina during this time of year it's very very wet it's very rainy and this time it was not and it actually got quite warm on several days

02:16.18
Jeremy
So I took a couple of notes just on, you know, you know, some of the things that I saw and i kind of was thinking, well, how can this relate to somebody who's being prepared? First thing that came to my mind was, you know, without rule of law, um government, you know, sort of collapse, you know,

02:35.80
Jeremy
sort of thing. And ah the biggest thing that I garnished from all of it was water consumption. So in this particular camp, this time we had 32 people. And um and they We as a group consumed by drinking, cooking, cleaning, and some you know various other things, at least um when it got its hottest, between 10 to 12 five-gallon water cans a day.

03:12.79
Jeremy
So if you average five-gallon water can ah by weight, um that's about, I think it's between 40 to 45 pounds or something like that.

03:24.13
Jeremy
That is a butt ton of water. And now mind you, this is this is a setting of unconventional warfare. we are actually out doing missions. We're doing stuff that the average person wouldn't normally do or have to do. Hopefully they never have to do.

03:41.73
Jeremy
But you factor if you factor in a gallon a day of water per person on an average, you know, just a group of people surviving.

03:53.07
Jeremy
And we at 32 people, as it got pretty warm, um, and doing, you know, kind of fighting and training things consumed a significant amount more of that, that really got my attention because I never really put a lot of,

04:10.62
Jeremy
I never really put a lot of thought into it in the past. And as far as like, you know, and that scenario, I never really paid attention to just how much water we consumed. um And it's a lot, you know, and then you start thinking about how can I store that much water and replenish it as fast as I would need it.

04:32.55
Jeremy
So that's one of the biggest things. And then to delve in a little bit deeper, and course, i I think militarily because I was military. we have this thing called the principles of a patrol base. And one of those principles is that it has to be near a source of drinkable water.

04:48.09
Jeremy
Well, unfortunately, not all water is going to be drinkable when you see it. So what does that include? That also includes gathering, purifying, filtering, and then having that water available for consumption for your group.

05:03.31
Jeremy
And that's, if you had 32 people like we did and at a moderate amount of work, That's a full-time job. you know that's like ah That is going down to a river, which there was a river nearby, filling up these containers of you know the not clean water, you know boiling perhaps, running through filters, doing all the different things you need to purify the water, then taking that water, putting it into clean containers ah day after day after day after day.

05:36.12
Jeremy
you would definitely get your steps in and a workout because you're going to have to lug that water from the water source back up to your camp and, you know, go through the process of cleaning and it and all that.

05:48.29
Jeremy
So that was, uh, that was one of the biggest things that I really paid attention to this last time. Um, and then the food situation. So these guys that are coming in are U S soldiers. Um,

06:03.45
Jeremy
And the premise of the camp is is that we do have some food. We have like rice and beans. um Fortunately, this time i was i I was not wanting to eat rice and beans for three days straight. So I actually brought some meat that we can include in it.

06:21.34
Jeremy
um And so basically for the first two days until these students got their act together with money and resources, that's what we were eating is rice and beans.

06:33.22
Jeremy
um Then they brought in some meat rabbits and um we had a couple of days of really good meat rabbit and squirrel stew cooked by our Vietnamese guys.

06:42.73
Keith
When you, when you say they they brought in some, who' who's they?

06:46.55
Jeremy
So in this scenario, we have an underground, we have an underground network and that's one of the, The particular lane that I work on within this contract is very unconventional warfare heavy.

06:58.97
Jeremy
So the students have to find, vet, and utilize an underground network to bring in resources to the camp. So our auxiliary drivers, who is part of the underground network, you know they're just you know contractors like me,

07:17.77
Jeremy
one guy happens to live right down the road from there and he has meat rabbits and all types of stuff. So he brought in, me think, eight meat rabbits and he brought in a whole large box of probably about 20 squirrels that he had, killed and skinned for us.

07:37.00
Jeremy
So we have, um, mountain yards, actual Vietnamese mountain yards who are part of our camp. And a lot of them, uh, they cook for us. Um, And, uh, we had, I think two to three days of extremely good, uh, rabbit and squirrel stew.

07:55.62
Jeremy
um so, and then there was other days when the students didn't allocate their funds correctly and we did not have food at all. And then, you know, sometimes we would eat really well and it was, you know, it just kind of struck me, you know, a lot of people are like, I'm going to buy this year's worth of freeze dried, whatever. and That kind of stuff and rice and beans and all that, that's all great.

08:19.40
Jeremy
But, um you know, after a while, you're like, man, dude, I could really, you know, use some some actual meat. And so my one of my granddaughters is standing behind me. turkey killer At the turkey killer, yes.

08:35.32
Jeremy
um Hi, baby. So during during this the course of this timeframe, the underground network would bring us these different things and fruits and vegetables, different meats.

08:52.71
Jeremy
And it really struck me that, my gosh, you know if we're a group and we're kind of in isolation And we had to go through the process of engaging with other groups for trade and commerce if you know if so our society did collapse.

09:10.16
Jeremy
This is kind of what it would look like. you know Because if you have a good working relationship with another group, You wouldn't want other groups necessarily to really get in there and get in your stuff.

09:22.46
Jeremy
So you would actually develop that network. You would develop certain codes. You would develop different signals in order to say, hey, i want to meet at this place and we can discuss x Y, and Z.

09:35.16
Jeremy
So this was the first time that i and I don't know why I've never done it before, but this was the first time that I really took that scenario and I translated it into a a, real world scenario is if, you know, something catastrophic had happened here and we were dependent on our groups and, you know, those, you know, mutual assistance groups and interacting with other locations. Um,

10:02.93
Jeremy
So yeah, that's kind of that's kind of where I wanted to take this one with it. I just got back last night um and I really pondered all of this because I'd never, I don't know why I never put the connection together before, but this one really made me pay attention.

10:18.50
Jeremy
yeah. so yeah

10:21.56
Keith
So no infrastructure. You guys were out in the woods where you did. You have some sort of, you know, like tents or buildings that you were put together. How did you how did you stay out there?

10:33.31
Jeremy
ah The contractors have tents. You know, I'm not going out there. ah i was in the military. I'm not in the military anymore. um You know.

10:43.04
Keith
Well, no, you're the teacher, but I mean, how how did they the people in the group, how did they live? They live in, you know, on the dirt or do they live in tents or how they do that?

10:50.93
Jeremy
All of our contractors, we live in tents and then the students that come in, they whatever they have out on their back when they came in is what they have. So most of them. um Sometimes they'll borrow tarps from us um and or sometimes they'll just pop up their own poncho and sleep up underneath it.

11:07.28
Jeremy
so But yeah, it's all out.

11:08.18
Keith
But you were out there for like two weeks, weren't you?

11:10.56
Jeremy
It's close to it, yeah. ah They always schedule it for two weeks in case something absolutely crazy happens with the actual the class itself, like that that particular team.

11:23.10
Jeremy
um Because the whole the whole scenario, basically everything that happens... is based off of what they do or they do not do. So at one point in time during this particular training event, um these guys almost had a catastrophic loss of rapport with us.

11:41.93
Jeremy
And it was based off of the stupidest decisions, you know, because it's always based off of stupid decisions. But um yeah, it's it's a neat, it's a neat training event to kind of just if you had the opportunity to observe it from a distance.

11:56.60
Jeremy
um But this time I really put a lot of merit into just how much work it would take to sustain a group trying to survive.

12:07.46
Jeremy
And it is a lot of freaking work, like a lot, like just, just the water alone is a significant amount of work. um And i'm i don't I don't think that people quite understand how truly difficult it can be to have enough water, not only on hand, but like ah not just in the immediate, but for regular consumption, because you still got to wash your dishes. You still got to wash your, your hands. You still gotta, if you can, you know, wash your, your nibbly bits and you know, the pertinence.

12:44.79
Jeremy
So you need a, a ton of water and you have, you need more than probably 90% of people really put thought into, you know?

12:55.60
Keith
Right. Yeah.

12:56.45
Jeremy
Yeah.

12:57.30
Keith
So, um, okay. So trying to put this in terms of, uh, a group of people bugging out, uh, in the woods.

13:05.22
Jeremy
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

13:06.14
Keith
Okay. So you you talked about the food and that, you know, you sourced it through a supply chain, but if a a group was out in the woods, let's say bug out location, what would, first of all, what was a the ah length of time, the longest length of time that they were out there, the students were out there in the woods having to work and survive and live?

13:28.69
Keith
We're talking in three days, one week, a night,

13:32.38
Jeremy
So, um

13:34.82
Keith
Like without actually going back to a you know a building someplace in our classroom.

13:39.18
Jeremy
oh yeah. um From the moment that they infill, ah which is when they actually are dropped into the fictional you know country, it's two weeks, two weeks and you know in the field.

13:54.78
Jeremy
And as you know, since you know they are students and soldiers, we we would not go outside

13:55.31
Keith
Oh, wow.

14:01.53
Jeremy
on a mission or go to do those things without at least a certain amount of food and water. um But by the time they got to us, they always look like a giant raggedy bag of crap. um So they get dropped off in the middle of the night in the Uari mountains.

14:21.14
Keith
And this isn't like playing games here. This is like, like, uh, this is special forces. This is like the real deal.

14:25.45
Jeremy
Yeah.

14:26.26
Keith
This is the army. This is are at a brag, right?

14:29.07
Jeremy
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:30.54
Keith
Right.

14:30.97
Jeremy
So yeah and they're paying a lot, trust me.

14:31.09
Keith
This is what the taxpayer dollars are paying for.

14:35.50
Jeremy
um they ah So they get dropped off into the Uwari mountain system and they have to navigate through the mountains.

14:35.63
Keith
Yeah.

14:43.53
Jeremy
um And then they have to avoid, you know, they're trying to, because the people are in the Uwari all the time. They're hiking, running, you know, they're canoeing, they're doing all types of things that people do.

14:56.95
Jeremy
um So they get dropped off in the middle of the night. They have to navigate through the URI mountains. You know, they're tired. They've got, I think these guys' as packs were averaging 135 pounds each.

15:09.34
Jeremy
I think that was the average.

15:10.53
Keith
wow

15:11.79
Jeremy
Yeah.

15:12.78
Keith
Okay, so that you rate that right there, stop right there.

15:12.97
Jeremy
Yeah.

15:14.86
Keith
So that is pretty comparable to a group of people going out, you know, um bugging out. Bugging out meaning the situation has gotten so bad back where they live that as a group, they had to relocate out in the middle of the woods, maybe for a night, maybe for three days, maybe for three weeks.

15:26.98
Jeremy
Mm-hmm.

15:29.43
Jeremy
Yeah.

15:33.59
Jeremy
Yep.

15:33.89
Keith
Okay, so that that would really, you'd be caring about that much anyway.

15:38.20
Jeremy
Yeah, and their their bags, and again, these guys are used to carrying significant amounts of weight.

15:45.29
Keith
That's a lot of weight, man.

15:46.52
Jeremy
It is. And some of it, unfortunately for them, ah it's self-inflicted. You know, these...

15:52.85
Keith
Bring you more than they need. they need

15:55.08
Jeremy
Well, as students and within this you know the the special operations community, especially in this scenario, they have the opportunity to preload caches. They have the opportunity to use what we call rat lining, meaning they have these pre-made bundles that are, ah so you know quote unquote, smuggled into this this country that they're going into.

16:19.55
Jeremy
um and placed in you know specific areas as a cache and they can go retrieve them, they have the opportunity to do so. um But a lot of these teams, they always they always bring a significant amount of batteries for their radio systems and the electronics that they use because they don't realize or they don't know that there could be an opportunity to recharge those batteries.

16:46.51
Jeremy
So the the camp that we are on or we utilize, it's actually on someone's private property.

16:47.05
Keith
Right, right.

16:52.87
Jeremy
It's ah ah it's ah it's a farm. It's cattle farm. And his house and some of his barns are on a different part of the pasture. He's given us permission to you know use them.

17:04.24
Jeremy
But we don't tell them that those barns are available until they actually start going into their own self-made crisis of, oh, crap, I've got to recharge this stuff and I don't have a way to do so.

17:16.18
Jeremy
you know that Then they start they start asking the question, but hey, do you know of a source of electricity that we can get to that's close by so we can start recharging our batteries?

17:16.82
Keith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

17:26.90
Jeremy
So then we take them you know to a place. It's ah it's a pump house that's ah kind of offset from his actual house. And you know we sneak them out there clandestinely and you know do all the things. But um that was another consideration. you know um ah i think that I think that people um and even groups romanticize this idea of picking up and I'm just going to go in the woods and I'm going build this community and it's going to be super great and all this stuff.

17:59.96
Jeremy
i think that I think that people have the wrong idea of what that would actually look like. um I've been to warden torn countries. I have been to, you know, third world countries where people actually have to do that. and sometimes it's literally the shirt that they have on their back, a potato sack full of a few food items and a baby.

18:23.52
Jeremy
And they pick up and they leave their current existence for a different place hoping to survive. And that's what it would actually look like. um Unless you have...

18:35.85
Jeremy
the mindset and the provisions and the know-how on actually how to do it. um

18:41.85
Keith
is why we have this podcast is why we talk about this.

18:44.87
Jeremy
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It is ah it is not.

18:47.98
Keith
Having the gear, having the clothing, having the expertise, the training, the practice, all the time that you have to get into it.

18:52.75
Jeremy
Yeah.

18:54.79
Keith
Because that one simple thing of being three days or a week out in the woods can you can be either the worst thing you've ever done in your entire life, or it could be somewhat acceptable that you can actually handle it.

18:59.00
Jeremy
Mm-hmm.

19:07.23
Jeremy
or can be the last thing you ever do. um

19:10.29
Keith
and That's true too.

19:11.65
Jeremy
Yeah. I mean, i mean, cause just the simple act of knowing how to purify clean and, and source the water itself. That's a really, really big deal. Like.

19:23.73
Keith
Well, you talked about that earlier, and I remember watching ah a program. ah It was a survival show type of a thing where you get kicked out and all that, and then you win money at the end.

19:32.48
Jeremy
Yeah.

19:32.58
Keith
And these these groups of people were together in little teams, and I remember them talking all the time about who's on water today.

19:40.33
Jeremy
Yeah. Yeah.

19:41.46
Keith
It was like just an all-day event, collecting, cleaning, filtering, the whole thing. It was just all-day event, boiling, you know, all that.

19:46.05
Jeremy
yeah

19:49.06
Jeremy
Yeah. and you and And so like, let's talk about that for a sec. Because boiling is one of the best, you know, best ways to actually ah really kill off microbes and stuff like that.

20:00.32
Jeremy
It doesn't necessarily like get the stuff.

20:02.50
Keith
Make it taste good.

20:03.46
Jeremy
Yeah. It doesn't get like the stuff out of the water.

20:06.60
Keith
Right, right, right.

20:07.32
Jeremy
There's different ways to do that. But um if you don't have a lid for the device that you're actually using to boil and you go to boil water, you can guarantee that you're going to lose a an amount of that water due to steam and evaporation because of the amount of time that you have to boil it.

20:28.26
Jeremy
So for the next batch of water that you get, you have to add that much more in order to compensate for what you lost in evaporation. And... um you know, cause we're using five gallon, you know, military water cans, you know, these are pre-filled from a clean water source that, you know, that is back in a different area, but yeah, exactly.

20:49.58
Keith
Right. But what happens when those run out?

20:53.28
Jeremy
So um with there being a river nearby and the fact that we're on an active farm in a farming community, you' better clean that water.

21:04.34
Jeremy
Cause even though the river is moving, You know, you could chuck a five gallon water down in there with a piece of rope and get it to fill up and bring it on back up. But then you got to put it in a boiling container that's separate from your clean containers.

21:19.87
Jeremy
Then you got to take that water and run it through filters to get all the stuff. You know, the ah just is brown water.

21:26.16
Keith
Sediment and stuff.

21:27.16
Jeremy
Yeah, sediment, bugs, twigs, whatever other crap is in there.

21:28.33
Keith
Mm-hmm. Yep.

21:32.23
Jeremy
And you got to do that a couple of times to get actual good, clean, you know, see through drinking water. And that is a significant amount of work that that occupies probably the majority of your time.

21:48.11
Jeremy
um And now if you were a part of a group, which we always, you know, preach about groups, um they ah there would have to be somebody dedicated every single day.

21:59.82
Jeremy
And even if you switched it up, they're like like that's their job the whole day you know of getting, cleaning, purifying water. that's That would be a full-time gig.

22:09.15
Keith
Yep.

22:10.40
Jeremy
so

22:10.27
Keith
That's right.

22:11.29
Jeremy
um And we have all ranges of age and demographic in the in our camp. you know Our oldest guy out there is a good friend of mine, a former Marine. He's 66? Yeah, down to early 20s.

22:26.96
Keith
Nice.

22:27.60
Jeremy
all the way down to early twenty s Um, so we had a quite a wide range of, uh, you know, contractors and all that. And that's another thing that I think that a lot of people don't take into consideration. Now, while this particular 65 year old is the most wiry redneck you'll ever meet, um, there are some 65 year olds who do not continuously do work and move.

22:54.40
Jeremy
So now you have an individual in your group potentially that needs a lot more assistance or needs a lot more, ah help along the way.

23:05.59
Jeremy
um and I think the people don't, so don't take that into consideration as much. Um, and you know, food, food is a lot of people. I think they feel like they're going to starve to death within, you know, 24 to 48 hours. You're not going to starve to death that fast, but,

23:22.78
Jeremy
um

23:23.08
Keith
No, you'll be uncomfortable. You won't like it. You'll be thinking about it big juicy cheeseburger, but you'll be okay.

23:25.41
Jeremy
Yeah.

23:28.11
Jeremy
Yeah. yeah Yeah. I thought about Snickers a lot. um That's because I like Snickers.

23:36.35
Keith
You can sneak a few you in your, you know, in your trousers or something.

23:37.94
Jeremy
Yeah. Yeah.

23:39.11
Keith
Even as a teacher.

23:39.33
Jeremy
i don't think that I didn't have them. I definitely, definitely had them with me in my tent because we're not allowed to eat, you know, our normal food or drink, you know, or or whatever and we normally drink or we can't do that stuff in front of students because

23:51.02
Keith
even as ah as a teacher

23:52.85
Jeremy
Yeah, the premise is, and and in I wouldn't say teacher, I'm more of a ah training tool. But in this particular camp, in my role, i am the camp sergeant major.

24:04.96
Jeremy
So there's a commander of these guerrilla forces, and then I'm the sergeant major. And um I was a lot.

24:14.06
Keith
Okay, so in ah in a bug out location type of a situation, you're going to have leaders. You won't you won't be calling each other corporals or court you know that kind of stuff, but you're going to be you're gonna have leaders, and those leaders can't be sitting there eating a juicy steak while everybody else is eating beans.

24:18.40
Jeremy
Yeah.

24:20.90
Jeremy
Yeah.

24:25.90
Jeremy
right yeah yeah um so food wise um and i will say i think i was gone what 10 10 or 11 days i lost uh 12 pounds um because you're you know you you get used to eating on a schedule uh of what's provided so our biggest meal would be dinner at the end of the day and our mountain yards

24:39.97
Keith
Wow.

24:51.25
Keith
I just figured you guys carried in like a crate of MREs or something. That's what I was thinking.

24:55.27
Jeremy
ah The students have MREs with them, ah not a crate, but and what they can carry, they have a requirement, you know, here's what you have to have.

24:58.68
Keith
What they can carry.

25:04.10
Jeremy
And then anything they bring along is additional. um We are, we have, ah we have, we call them ATs or OTs. They're students that are awaiting training ah or out of training. And those are actual soldiers that are put on a tasking to fill in the gaps of contractors.

25:24.69
Jeremy
So we have contractors and then students who are, you know, ah getting ready to go through the same course. And that gives them a great opportunity to observe it. learn from it, you know, see what happens good and what what doesn't happen good.

25:39.67
Jeremy
um They have to have and MREs because they are, you know, soldiers, there's a requirement that they have to have them. But in the camp itself, we, you know, quote unquote, depend on our food that we either have on hand or the underground network brings in for us.

25:58.58
Jeremy
So, um i mean, we didn't starve.

25:58.53
Keith
That's cool.

26:02.38
Jeremy
yeah um You know,

26:03.85
Keith
No, but this is why we talk about if you have a prepper group, you know, kind of like going along with what we've already talked about in the prepper group series is that you you want people that are going to have supplies of their own, that that have some capabilities of their own and and training.

26:19.81
Keith
This way, yeah someone's not just walking. You don't have, you have a group of 30 and 15 of them are just walking in without anything in their hand. You got a problem.

26:27.94
Jeremy
Yeah, yeah.

26:28.27
Keith
yeah Those people need to be bringing in food, they em MREs or storable food or even canned food, if whatever they have, they need to be bringing it in.

26:36.47
Jeremy
Yeah. And that's that's another, you know, aspect I think that that most people um don't, I don't know why, but they don't think about the fact that, ah one, you have an eclectic mix of people, but two, how much does disease each person, you know, consume?

26:56.84
Jeremy
lets Let's just take, a for instance, a um a semi out of shape, adult, male, middle-aged, whatever.

27:05.61
Keith
Me.

27:06.00
Jeremy
Nope. Okay. you I didn't say it. You said it.

27:09.65
Keith
i'm not middle. I mean, I'm 56. Is that, is that middle-aged? don't know.

27:12.89
Jeremy
I don't even know what middle age is anymore. i don't, I don't know if that changed. Anyway.

27:17.73
Keith
Yeah. I don't know. Who knows what that is these days.

27:18.78
Jeremy
So let's take, you know, in normal life, you eat a couple of times a day And, you know, you do an average amount of work. Let's say it's not you and you you're not a homesteader and all those different things. You're a nine to five, you know, kind of dude.

27:34.48
Jeremy
um Not really a whole lot of exercise, maybe a little bit here and there. But you take that person who went from eating what they want to having a meal a day, you know, pretty decent meal a day.

27:50.64
Jeremy
plus work, um plus weather, and then you start to see just how quickly your body will morph. um i i in particular, lose a lot of weight or gain a lot of weight very rapidly.

28:07.61
Jeremy
um And i did pretty much every mission this time around except for, i think, two, an hour lane.

28:19.11
Jeremy
but Each lane is different. Ours is very unconventional warfare heavy. It's very network dependent. um But we have um one, two, three, i think we have a total of 10 kinetic targets and I was on all of them except for two.

28:34.09
Jeremy
Um, yeah.

28:33.98
Keith
and So you worked.

28:35.86
Jeremy
And, and I think my average was between a five T five K and a 10 K a day. So I was averaging between three and a half to seven to eight miles, uh, a day. And that's just walking around, you know, walking around in the camp, doing stuff.

28:53.73
Keith
Mm-hmm.

28:54.56
Jeremy
Uh, some of the days that we did missions, it was a lot farther. I think the longest, or the farthest distance in one day that I did walking and and running was probably about 12 miles.

29:07.69
Jeremy
So, yeah.

29:07.82
Keith
Wow.

29:10.02
Jeremy
Yeah, and that's the day.

29:10.76
Keith
Through woods, that's a lot. i mean, you're talking about trails or at least two tracks or something. Mm-hmm.

29:14.76
Jeremy
Yeah, trails, woods, some of them out in the open, not a whole lot, but there's one particular day when I'm taking the students and showing them um the whole area that we operate out of,

29:28.27
Jeremy
I call that the long walk. That day is is usually the second day that they're there. And each one of the time, every time I do it, it's close to, I don't know, probably total of eight to nine miles.

29:42.98
Jeremy
Because you got to take them out one direction, show them all the different stuff, take them back into the camp, drink a little water, take them out the other direction, show them around, take them back, you know. So it's it's a lot of walking.

29:54.46
Keith
Not unlike if you were having a bug out situation in the woods, you know, and and you know what, even if you were doing a bug out in a house or in some, some type of a structure during an SHTF, you were still going to have to have people go out, you you know, on runs to go find stuff, collect food, get squirrels, whatever it is, you know, just whatever it is you're doing, go house to house or through the woods hunt.

29:59.00
Jeremy
yeah Yeah.

30:16.69
Jeremy
Yeah.

30:16.74
Keith
and You're still going to have to have people doing that.

30:19.05
Jeremy
Yeah.

30:19.06
Keith
So there is going to be exercise. Now, if you're in the woods, you're goingnna have a whole lot more exercise because you're gonna be building a camp for a bunch of people.

30:25.60
Jeremy
Mm-hmm.

30:26.16
Keith
And that and that is hard work.

30:28.82
Jeremy
It is no joke. And I will just tell you this. um and And I keep going back to it one second after. Part of the book, um it talks about how you know you know the event happened and how quickly ah wild animals started to disappear, almost to the point of they thought that this particular animal was extinct.

30:49.75
Jeremy
um And our Montagnards, they're Vietnamese. They were born into this lifestyle. Um, there's not a whole lot of squirrels around our camp after day two or three. I'll just tell you that.

31:07.02
Jeremy
Uh, not a whole.

31:07.70
Keith
I always wondered that. I mean, i I really did. I always wondered about that because I've seen it in, in different types of programs where they say, you know, the deer is all hunted out.

31:13.80
Jeremy
Yeah.

31:16.00
Keith
The food, the food service, the protein's gone.

31:18.21
Jeremy
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. You can, uh, you can quickly eliminate entire areas worth of, you know, edible animals very, very quickly if you don't have a plan.

31:29.55
Jeremy
Um, the, our guy, our, our mountain yards actually, um, they actively seek out to, you know, shoot down the squirrels. They'll get them, they'll clean them, put them in whatever we're going to eat that night.

31:42.29
Jeremy
Um, and I, I,

31:43.24
Keith
What is that word you're saying? Mottanyard? What is that?

31:45.79
Jeremy
The Montagnards, so the Montagnards are Vietnamese people. um They have a special operations history going all the way back to when the French were in Vietnam.

31:58.73
Jeremy
ah They assisted the French in trying to stop the communist a move from the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese into the South. They are guerrilla fighters through and through, true you know, and this goes back generations.

32:13.43
Jeremy
Um, and when the United States was in Vietnam, they, assisted fought with lead, uh, you know, by being scouts and interpreters. And these these dudes are legit. Like these dudes are body stackers.

32:27.95
Jeremy
Um, we have a guy in our camp. Well, he, he used to be in our camp and now he's a different role. Um, That dude, when you meet him, he's the most gentle, calm, kind, you know, just a nice old Vietnamese dude.

32:43.66
Jeremy
I think he's in his late 70s, early 80s. um That man, as a young man, freaking terrifying. This dude is so legendary that there was a book written and he's mentioned in the book.

32:58.38
Jeremy
ah He killed a bear with his own hands. um This dude is like, his his past is terrifying, ah the number of bodies that he has ah under his under his belt.

33:05.97
Keith
Damn.

33:15.25
Jeremy
um But each one of them all have just this almost... for lack of a better term, heartbreaking story of, of how they ended up as part of this community.

33:28.49
Jeremy
Um, but the Montagnards, um, they have been, ah brought in and protected and sponsored to come here to the States by the special forces community now for a very, very long time.

33:42.08
Jeremy
And they have been tied into these scenarios, uh, of special operations soldiers for, Since basically they came into conception um back in the 50s and 60s.

33:54.23
Keith
Wow, that's cool.

33:55.75
Jeremy
Yeah, they're ah they're legit. Yeah. Yeah. um and

33:59.47
Keith
so So these are the type of people that you're going to want to look for.

33:59.73
Jeremy
it

34:03.14
Jeremy
yeah

34:03.29
Keith
and not saying Vietnamese mountain yards, but in your prepper group, there's people that have that have been hardened, that that have been through so a few things.

34:09.17
Jeremy
yeah

34:10.69
Keith
That that's really worth that experience is worth a lot.

34:14.21
Jeremy
yeah Yeah, and um I'll just tell you this. um they can If you bring them an animal, it they'll cook it and eat it.

34:25.87
Jeremy
I have seen these dudes lop the head off of a very large snapping turtle, throw the whole thing in a pot, start cooking it, and then take it out, pull the shell apart, and pull all the guts out and all that, and then start chopping it up for dinner.

34:40.00
Jeremy
It's not delicious. I'm just going to tell you, it's not, it is not my preferred choice of, uh, you know, I don't wake up in the morning and be like, damn, I could really go for some snapping turtle. It's, it is not good.

34:54.17
Jeremy
Um, but

34:54.42
Keith
Oh, yeah, there's some probably some people here in the U.S. and in the bayou and whatnot that, you know, they eat turtle.

34:59.31
Jeremy
Yeah, i I have no doubt, but each one of those turtles, it seemed to me, had probably four to five different textures of, like, within the different parts of the animal.

35:01.99
Keith
Mm-hmm.

35:11.09
Jeremy
It was...

35:11.26
Keith
I was holding a ah live turtle just today, crawling across the grass right in front of my shop.

35:13.74
Jeremy
it

35:15.50
Keith
and I picked it up and I was just thinking myself, wow, i could just, just put it over a fire, cook it up and I can eat it. And then I, and then I let them go in the woods.

35:24.44
Jeremy
Yeah. Well, the natives here, one of the things that they would do is they would take, because they want to dispatch it first. um They would let it extend its neck, hold it, and they take the knife and they actually go in between the the back of the neck and the shell just downward.

35:41.49
Jeremy
um And then they would put that over a flame and eventually the shell starts to separate itself. And then they would take that, open it up, get the animal out of the shell, and then, you know, do what they need to do.

35:54.39
Jeremy
um But turtle's been consumed now for, you know, very long time.

35:57.28
Keith
Yeah. Long time. Yeah.

35:58.92
Jeremy
Yeah. But, you know.

36:00.12
Keith
So let's, let's, let's, let's move on to, um, I have a ah question about medical.

36:00.31
Jeremy
Mm-hmm.

36:06.67
Keith
So was there somebody or is there a group of somebody in the group that was, had medical training? Did you bring medical supplies and each one had their, each or their own medical sp supplies? How'd that work?

36:17.36
Jeremy
so the team that yeah yeah So the team that came in, they have typically two of them.

36:18.40
Keith
I mean, I'm talking about everything from boo-boos to somebody just sick.

36:26.43
Jeremy
They're called 18 Deltas. They are Special Forces Medics. um And the Special Forces Medic is is quite a feat. um but The pipeline for Special Forces Medics is up to two years before they even go to a unit.

36:44.48
Jeremy
That's how long they're in training.

36:45.57
Keith
wow

36:46.52
Jeremy
Yeah, because

36:46.64
Keith
So these people that they can actually do almost like field surgery.

36:49.72
Jeremy
Yes, they can. Yeah.

36:50.86
Keith
Wow.

36:51.12
Jeremy
um They have to do clinicals. They have to do ambulance time. They have to do clinic time. They have to do just this slew of things. And that's if they get accepted, like, because you have to go through a selection first. It's called Special Forces Qualification Selection or SFQC.

37:09.42
Jeremy
And then they have a selection course. You have to get selected. And then you you have a series of tests and batteries and you know different things that determine what job you're going to do within the Special Forces jobs.

37:24.67
Jeremy
um We had a guy who his entire Army career prior to going to selection, he was a medic, but he actually wanted to not be a medic anymore. He wanted to do something else.

37:36.50
Jeremy
So he was going to be a Special Forces Communications Sergeant. Um, but the medics that they have are very, very well trained.

37:47.57
Jeremy
Um, they have significant amount of gear and medicine and training on how to use all of them. Um, you know, I showed you,

37:57.20
Keith
did Did you guys have to? Did anybody need medical assistance?

38:00.58
Jeremy
um, in this particular course, you know, there was the common, um, you know, springtime coughs and sneezes and runny noses and all that.

38:10.78
Jeremy
Um,

38:11.26
Keith
Allergies.

38:12.34
Jeremy
Yeah, but, and I had that, you know, that cut on my arm, I think I showed y'all, but the, um and that didn't even, that wasn't anything. I just washed it and it was already cleaned up. But um the scenario dictates that they have to go through several major medical, you know, scenarios.

38:32.01
Jeremy
um And like the first one that happens, ah the cadre will, you know, they you i don't they don't always tell us who it's going to be, but You know, they're going to do a mission and then bang, this dude got shot in the leg, react.

38:46.21
Jeremy
You know, they have to go through the stop the bleed. They have to, you know, go through that whole process. And then that continues throughout. Sometimes when a contractor is assessed as a casualty, sometimes they don't come back.

39:01.42
Jeremy
They'll actually keep them out of the scenario, tucked away, and they'll go do something else for the whole time because, if that medical scenario doesn't go well, they will remove just yet another person and they'll remove another person um And you don't get them back.

39:20.40
Jeremy
And when they, yeah, and that's reality.

39:22.59
Keith
Wow.

39:24.55
Jeremy
you know If you don't stop the bleed, if you don't do a good job, if you don't do certain things, guess what? People die. And that that concept of removing a contractor away from the fight, um and it gets them to realize, oh crap, I messed up.

39:42.50
Jeremy
What am I doing wrong? and and it It forces them to think about ah one, the consequence of their actions or lack thereof. But two, you know, the real world implication of if if somebody were to get shot or blown up or something, there that person is down until they are either better or you have to you have to start thinking about you know quality of life and those kinds of things.

40:08.19
Keith
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

40:08.97
Jeremy
So um it's it's for them, it's all second and third order effects and how they think ahead.

40:10.35
Keith
Okay.

40:16.12
Jeremy
what's What's the implication of this? um So yeah, there's definitely a lot of medical scenarios, especially towards the end. As missions start to pick up, it becomes more kinetic. It becomes more intense.

40:30.54
Jeremy
and And then a final mission, it culminates into a macal or mass casualty scenario. um And mass casualties is usually determined um as a, basically a um a percentage, you know, in the final mission, we take everybody, everybody.

40:42.37
Keith
Thank

40:50.31
Jeremy
um So on this particular mission at that time, there was like 20, 25, 26 of us. And if you assessed between four and five casualties, that is a mass casualty event because that actually reduces your combat effectiveness.

41:09.62
Jeremy
In the same way ah for the ever you know ah the rest of the world, let's just say, for instance, something happens within a prepper group or a mutual assistance group of your like 10, if something happened badly enough to say two to three, that's a mass casualty.

41:27.72
Jeremy
um And if you don't, if you don't.

41:28.80
Keith
Absolutely. Yeah. You're talking about taking out 25, 30% of your group.

41:32.45
Jeremy
Yeah, yeah. and And not even just like, you know, a lot of people think about these groups, they think of firepower.

41:34.04
Keith
It's a big deal. Yeah.

41:38.99
Jeremy
I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about like people to work. You know, like, let's just say once, let's just say somebody rolls an ankle really bad, that's going to take them out.

41:43.19
Keith
Yeah.

41:47.86
Jeremy
You know, what are they going to be able to do to, you know, to help? You have to, you have to tend to them. You have to, you know, treat this thing.

41:56.06
Keith
Yep.

41:56.72
Jeremy
um Because if not, yeah, yeah.

41:57.63
Keith
or get sick or into the flu or the cold and something. I mean, all those things will take them out of commission.

42:02.42
Jeremy
yeah I mean, the human body is an amazing thing, but we are, i mean, we are so fragile. We're so much more fragile than we really, than we really taken into account.

42:13.64
Keith
Now, what about, uh, another thing for a prepper group on a bug out location situation? Security would be something. Was that something that you guys had to worry about or put into your scenario was like security on watch or whatever?

42:22.79
Jeremy
Yeah. Oh yeah. Yep. Yeah. We had guard 24 seven. um People would rotate out of course. um Now, mind you, this is a war scenario. So we have machine guns and we have, you know, weapons. with We have all those things. um But security is a major, major issue ah for the students. um They have to build a defense plan.

42:48.31
Jeremy
Excuse me. They have to build a defense plan. They have to, push out and... and In the military, we call it black and gold. um If we had to leave the spot where we're at now, and this is exactly what a bug out is, if we had to leave and you just think of black and gold as left and right or two different directions.

43:10.67
Jeremy
So let's say east was black and west was gold. ah You find a predetermined place to go to in the immediate, but you also have to think what's beyond.

43:22.40
Jeremy
So they have to set up a defense perimeter. They have to set up a plan on how to actually secure the area. And usually theirs includes machine gun positions, claymore mines, explosives, you know, that kind of stuff, um which they do have to set up. they're not They're not, you know, real. They're inert, but they actually have to go through the process of setting all these things up.

43:45.11
Jeremy
So they have explosives that will take down trees and create blocking positions. They have Claymore mines to take out as many enemy as possible when they blow it up, you know?

43:55.94
Jeremy
um Which, are you going to have in the rest of the world?

43:57.21
Keith
Thank you.

43:59.28
Jeremy
No, but they are, home you can make them homemade. and So... Mm-hmm. so

44:05.43
Keith
Yeah, but all these things can be turned into if you're bugging out ah out into the woods, because if if it's gotten so bad wherever you were that you had to bug out, you can rest assured they're going to be other people bugging out in those woods as well.

44:18.16
Jeremy
Yeah.

44:18.27
Keith
You're going to have to have some sort of security. And those people might become, you know, like ah allies to you and and have sort of a network going on, but you're still going to need to have security ah in your camp.

44:29.52
Jeremy
Yeah.

44:30.25
Keith
You got kids there.

44:30.65
Jeremy
Yep.

44:31.15
Keith
You got people there. You got weapons there. You've got food and supplies. You've got to be able to secure it.

44:37.22
Jeremy
Yep. Yep. And this, I think this is probably another thing that a lot of people don't, um don't take into enough consideration. is what it takes to defend your stuff.

44:50.45
Jeremy
um Because a lot of people put a lot of merit into their things. And if you want to protect those things, you got to think about how to, you know, what are you willing to do? What are you willing to do to protect your family and what you have worked to accomplish?

45:07.41
Jeremy
You know, your place.

45:07.37
Keith
Yeah. Yeah.

45:09.78
Jeremy
Mm-hmm.

45:09.72
Keith
You know, in that one show I was telling you about where they've got these teams that are, you know, whoever lasts the longest in in the team wins, the team wins. They, when someone, when this team would go out and like, let's say go fishing, they would, they wouldn't leave somebody back at camp. And another team snuck into their camp, took their tarps, took their, all of their stuff that they boil their water in. And that team was done within a day or two. They were done.

45:35.64
Keith
They were, they were checked out.

45:37.95
Jeremy
that's going to happen

45:39.08
Keith
That's all it took was a couple of tarps and a couple of pots and they were done.

45:42.80
Jeremy
Yeah, that is absolutely what will happen in the real world. There are people out there who would see this kind of scenario, this kind of situation as a gold mine.

45:53.78
Jeremy
You know, we have lowlifes out there.

45:54.67
Keith
Yeah.

45:55.94
Jeremy
They're willing to do terrible things to other individuals and take their stuff. You know, it's a, but it' it's a, it's a huge thing.

46:01.31
Keith
So, so security is a, is it is a real deal. It's a real thing.

46:06.11
Jeremy
um um I think probably more so than enough people ah really think about. It is, it's ah it's a pretty big deal.

46:21.37
Keith
um I hit the wrong button. So I've got two more things I want to ask about. One is going to be, um, and then of course you can finish off whatever else you wanted to talk about. Um, what about, uh, waste removal? Nobody ever talks about that.

46:37.93
Jeremy
Hmm.

46:37.87
Keith
I mean, do you now in your situation, I'm going to assume they brought port-a-potties out there.

46:42.89
Jeremy
No, absolutely not.

46:44.25
Keith
Oh, so you guys had a deal with that yourself.

46:46.76
Jeremy
Yeah. um So ah we have a slit trench.

46:49.92
Keith
and and And food trash and you know all all types of stuff.

46:52.51
Jeremy
Yep. Yeah.

46:54.00
Keith
anything not Not just bodily fluids, but anything you were going to throw away.

46:57.61
Jeremy
Yeah. Well, the good thing is, dudes, we can just find a tree and piss on a tree. um But um and I would you know what? I i just thought about something and i'm going to I just I have to say it.

47:10.53
Jeremy
Um, for girls, women, um, it is not, uh, as easy as dudes would think for a girl to take a piss in the woods.

47:21.18
Jeremy
It's, uh, there's a whole thing that goes along with that. There's movements that men could probably never do in order to take a piss in the woods. Uh, if, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's quite a sight to see, but,

47:31.38
Keith
Yeah.

47:35.99
Jeremy
Um, yeah, so we have a slit trench and the slit trench that the, that we have dug in the very beginning, we intentionally don't do it right. And, we actually have, um, like you, you'll see them in like nursing homes and people who are, uh, elderly, they have the, um, it's a toilet seat. That's basically like a walker, um, that we actually have one of those. Um, and we take that with us and that's what we use.

48:02.71
Jeremy
Um, and when, you know, the students get in and the medics are actually responsible for making sure that that split, that slit trench is dug correctly. So they are now forced to fill that in.

48:16.91
Jeremy
And, um, then they have to do a new one, um that's correct, the right size. And, you know, that can accommodate, uh, the number of people that you have. But I will just tell you,

48:29.38
Jeremy
You take 32 dudes who are on a high-protein diet, those slit trenches get filled very, very quickly.

48:36.13
Keith
I was going to say that, man, if you've got a bug out group out there that's 20, 30 strong, including kids, possibly a few dogs, you're going to generate a lot of, I'll be nice, feces and urine, a lot of it.

48:46.81
Jeremy
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you do.

48:49.05
Keith
It's got to go somewhere.

48:50.40
Jeremy
Yeah.

48:50.32
Keith
It can't just be, you can't just go out and make holes all over the place. you can The whole place is going to start stinking.

48:56.29
Jeremy
Let me tell you on and the, on the right days is with the right amount of breeze, it always does. Um, and as far, so that, that's how we take care of actual human waste. and We actually dig the slit trench.

49:08.96
Jeremy
And then as that one gets filled, you got to dig a new one and you have to keep digging these things. You have to give them, dig them over and over and over and over. And we just would kind of go down a line. Um,

49:20.14
Jeremy
And then, you know, in three months when we do this again, we have to remember, was that here or is that there? Where did we do this last time?

49:26.29
Keith
Oh, boy. no.

49:28.52
Jeremy
um

49:28.42
Keith
know

49:29.53
Jeremy
This one particular hill hillside, there is a unknown, probably undesirable to know amount of human crap on that hill.

49:29.68
Keith
oh that would suck.

49:38.39
Jeremy
It's pretty, pretty significant.

49:40.05
Keith
and Hopefully, by the time that this happens again, you'll be on training. That'll all be down into the earth and in a way.

49:44.20
Jeremy
of Man, I hope so. um And as far as animal matter, um you know I told you that we had the meat rabbits. They got to be skinned. They got to be cleaned.

49:55.42
Keith
Yeah, yeah.

49:55.86
Jeremy
would take that and yeah, they have those.

49:58.06
Keith
gut piles and all that stuff.

50:00.16
Jeremy
the i will say this though. You really do have to pay attention to how close those gut piles are, um how deep you dig that particular hole.

50:12.44
Jeremy
And the reason I say that is and and and you also have to have it away from a source of water because that stuff stinks so bad.

50:18.23
Keith
Right.

50:22.24
Jeremy
It is unbelievably bad. But with that stink, it creates a problem because then you have predators. So at night, uh, it is not uncommon for you to hear coyotes, literally coyotes and raccoons and whatever else that eats animal matter, crowd you know, going through our tents and going through our camp, trying to be quiet, but they're not.

50:30.42
Keith
That's right.

50:45.46
Jeremy
I've had coyotes sniffing on my tent before I've had raccoons.

50:48.83
Keith
Wow.

50:49.22
Jeremy
Yeah. Like staring at me while I'm taking a piss at night. I can see them.

50:53.45
Keith
Don't corner either one of them, they'll but they'll bite you.

50:53.64
Jeremy
Um, Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you can hear it. You know, it's there and we know what they're after. um So we try to ah we try to keep that those that that gut pile away.

51:07.81
Jeremy
um The good thing is, is that it is on an active cattle farm, you know, and you know cattle die and that kind of thing. So he has to dispose of those himself. It's pretty interesting what he does.

51:19.94
Jeremy
it just literally loads them onto a front loader and dumps them in the woods. So yeah, yeah, it's what a lot of farmers do.

51:23.42
Keith
Is that right? Wow.

51:26.34
Jeremy
um

51:26.69
Keith
I thought they put him in a hole, but all right.

51:28.24
Jeremy
No, no.

51:28.52
Keith
Yeah.

51:29.44
Jeremy
And then you do that and it actually will keep those predatory animals engaged with that and keep them away from, hopefully away from, you know, their, their live animals.

51:41.23
Jeremy
um But yeah, you, you've got to get rid of, You got to get rid of the the poop and you got to get rid of the guts. And then, and fortunately within our scenario, we had several contractors that they said, Hey, you're dead.

51:54.59
Jeremy
know Now you have to figure out a way to get rid of human remains and it will happen, you know, in the real world, that's a real thing. um So you got to come up with a way to dispose of human remains, ah hopefully in a dignified manner, but you have to, you got to really

52:02.45
Keith
Yes.

52:13.10
Jeremy
One, you got to really get those things far, far away from yeah your your living situation. And you have to go deep, like really deep, minimum of six feet.

52:25.10
Jeremy
And that's that's, you know, it's a lot of digging.

52:26.24
Keith
It's lot of digging.

52:28.39
Jeremy
And it's not a one person job to dig down six feet. It just isn't. um

52:32.20
Keith
Yeah.

52:32.86
Jeremy
So we had to actually, yeah, yeah, they will.

52:33.25
Keith
shall Shallow graves not going to work. They'll get they'll get dug up real quick.

52:37.97
Jeremy
um We actually had that happen within our scenario. I think overall they killed off one, two, three, four contractors um because of, you know, everything that happens or doesn't happen is based off of the decision-making process of the students.

52:56.27
Jeremy
So, yeah, it's ah it's a real thing, man.

52:56.92
Keith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

53:00.60
Jeremy
um And this particular time, I really paid attention to all the implications to what it would be like in a prepper group. you know surviving in a situation out there in the world.

53:11.77
Jeremy
um Because this the the thing that we do you know for these students has happened hundreds of thousands of times in other countries you know for a very, very long time.

53:24.45
Jeremy
um And one of the other things is, and I think I'll finish up with this, and this is the the without rule of law thought,

53:29.06
Keith
Mm-hmm.

53:33.76
Jeremy
um you know So we're a group of insurgents in this scenario, and we are fighting against an oppressive government regime. right Kind of like the last administration, but in a scenario. So um the U.S. soldiers, they come in and they do these things. Well, they time warp you, and you go forward 30 days at a time every few days, and they have a promise that they've made to us right to pay us.

54:02.25
Jeremy
And in this particular instance, because of some decision-making process, they had to pay a significant amount of money to a corrupt cop who had three, they actually took three of their soldiers away.

54:15.69
Jeremy
So they had to pay to get them back within a black market.

54:19.26
Keith
Oh, man.

54:19.43
Jeremy
um So myself and the guy who plays the role of the commander, we told them we will give up our pay and to ensure that these guys get paid.

54:30.89
Jeremy
But now you have a debt. So the next time that you we we flash forward in time, another 30 days, they're supposed to pay us again. But they already owe us.

54:41.68
Jeremy
And now they're almost out of money. So when we're conducting the after actions review and we're doing in it because it's quite it's quite um lengthy, the after actions.

54:55.06
Jeremy
um One of the things that came up um is if you make promises to a group of individuals that you may not be able to back up, you might have just created an insurgency of the insurgents that you fought side by side with.

55:14.20
Keith
Mm-hmm.

55:15.09
Jeremy
Because if you create a group of soldiers who know now know how to fight and have stuff and guns and training, but you didn't take care of them as you promised, guess what you just did?

55:27.79
Jeremy
You just took a bunch of insurgents and you created another insurgency. Yeah. And then they're like, oh, damn. Yeah, yeah, we actually just did that, didn't we?

55:40.47
Jeremy
Because, and you know, the guys, there's there's officers and enlisted in these in these teams. there's a couple of these captains making real big promises.

55:51.71
Jeremy
And one ah one of the things that I had to bring up, I was like, where in your titling and your authority within United States government gives you the authority to make that kind of progress youre like that kind of promise? That's a big promise.

56:04.77
Jeremy
So are you able to promise that? or are you saying that you're promised you're going to tell somebody to give us the stuff and money and things? And he's like, damn, yeah.

56:15.90
Jeremy
Yeah, I can't make any promises whatsoever. I'm just a captain. you know So those are those are real world um implications. you know So if you're in a mag group or you're in a prepper group and you're making promises to another group and you don't come through, that other group might get pretty pissed off.

56:35.23
Jeremy
That's that's a a real possibility.

56:35.95
Keith
I think that's very realistic.

56:37.89
Jeremy
Yeah.

56:37.86
Keith
Yes.

56:38.80
Jeremy
Yeah. and And you don't want to fight an insurgency that you may have been intentionally created. So if you're going to make promises and you're going make deals, be a person of your word, even if it does suck for a little bit.