204 Grid-Down Comms with Jay Steagall - SHTF Communications

Tonight, we have Special Guest Oklahoma State Representative Jay Steagall about the importance of Radio Comms during an SHTF Grid-Down Situation. Now to be clear we won’t be nerding out or go into the weeds with tech talk, inner workings, or specs on this episode, just an easy listening and entertaining discussion on the roles these types of radios serve when communication with the outside world goes offline.

That time will come… it always has, and it always will, when the lights go out… when the hum of the air conditioner dies… when your phone becomes a paperweight… in that moment, the silence, will be deafening. Some people will panic at that exact moment. But most others will work it out in their head… give it 30 mins, maybe an hour… they’ll have it back up. As if we knew who “They” really were. But when that 24hr mark arrives and there’s still no power, no phone, no creature comforts, that’s when most of the rest of us start to panic, including me. The difference is, that panic, for me, is my trigger. It’s my brain coming to terms with reality and switching my thought process to survival. Cuz I’m already prepped… the readiness box is checked. Now it comes down to what I know and what I’ve practiced… It’s Go Time. It’s pure survival, starting now. 

You’ve got all the preps… or do you? Let’s see. Shelter, Water, Food, Meds, First Aid, All the Toilet Paper you could rip off the shelves the last time someone cried wolf, and Defense… Hell! Offense as well.

And don’t forget that you have your support team… Family, Friends, Neighbors, Your Network… Do you? Are you sure there’s “There” there? I mean… Are they walking distance away, maybe next door? Chances are no, there not. Maybe down the road a bit. Across town… across the county, or state..? Maybe even across country.

In a grid-down world, information is survival. The ability to call for help, to gather intel, to connect with your team — that’s not a luxury. That’s your lifeline. Cell towers, down. The internet, down. Satelites, can’t be reached. What’s left? Voices and signals, of the prepared, that will be carried throughout the airwaves.

Today, we’re talking about radios. The heartbeat of survival communication. Shortwave, HAM, Walkies big rigs, small rigs, even the Frankenstein kits pieced together with good old fashioned Redneck Engineering. It doesn’t really matter what you’re running. What’s important… is, how important, this Prep is, in your kit.

CloverLeaf Precision LLC

Contact Cloverleaf Precision

Please Visit Our Affiliate Links to Find Great Preparedness Products:

• The Ultimate Baofeng Radio Bible for Beginners Paperback 
• ARRL Ham Radio License Manual 5th Edition Spiral-Bound
• ARRL Repeater Directory 2025 Edition Spiral-Bound
• Retevis RT97S GMRS Repeater Base Station
• Baofeng UV-5R 8W Dual Band Radio Basic Kit
• Baofeng GM-15 8W Pro Long Range Radio 2 Pack Kit
• Baofeng UV-5R 8W 2 Pack Set with Wireless Programmer
• Baofeng 5RM 10W Long Range 2 Pack Radio Set with Accessories
• Baofeng USB Programming Cable for PC/Phone/Tablet
• Syntech USB C to USB Ada

Transcript

Buddy
was going to my house and we don't have internet.

00:00:04.62
Keith
Yeah.

00:00:08.48
Buddy
They were doing a lot of new construction and building onto the addition. And wow, no, we lose internet, but don't know, for a day every other week.

00:00:20.98
Keith
Yeah, seems like a lot.

00:00:21.32
Buddy
So yes, it's getting ridiculous. So. i don't know. They keep knocking out the, this time they took out the whole box, I guess, is what one guy said. He he lives in the neighborhood and he works for AT&T. So

00:00:37.30
Keith
You're saying addition, what they're adding onto the neighborhood.

00:00:41.01
Buddy
yeah, the neighborhood. Yeah.

00:00:42.70
Keith
Gotcha. Hey, Jay, you on?

00:00:46.11
Jay Steagall
Hey, I'm up.

00:00:47.74
Keith
What's going on, man?

00:00:48.88
Jay Steagall
I don't know, man. Nobody tells me anymore.

00:00:51.02
Keith
I think you better know. You better know something.

00:00:54.78
Jay Steagall
ah Well, here's what I do know. It takes a big chicken to pull a train.

00:00:58.64
Keith
It does. I got four turkeys. They're about twice the size of my chickens. I think they could probably pull it.

00:01:06.05
Jay Steagall
Pull a big train. Tremendous a good.

00:01:12.02
Keith
Um, yeah.

00:01:12.08
Buddy
oh

00:01:13.28
Keith
So, uh, buddy, you're going to have to probably roll this one. we, uh, I mean, I'll do the intro like I'd normally do, but, uh, I think you said something about communications. So I set it up as grid down communications.

00:01:25.75
Buddy
Yeah, GridDown, Camo, our communications. ah Jay, I sent you a list of a couple questions, but we can just...

00:01:30.62
Keith
Yeah.

00:01:34.20
Buddy
you know that's just the baseline if we hit some dead space.

00:01:34.32
Jay Steagall
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Could have been.

00:01:37.74
Buddy
um But I'll...

00:01:39.25
Keith
ah Let me, let me just say ask Jay though, ah because the last time I spoke with you was, I believe I'm not mistaken.

00:01:39.63
Buddy
I

00:01:44.73
Keith
Wasn't it? Oh, it was a while back now.

00:01:50.50
Jay Steagall
yeah

00:01:50.58
Keith
I can't remember when it was before the election.

00:01:55.48
Buddy
think it was.

00:01:56.53
Keith
I think it was.

00:01:56.89
Jay Steagall
been

00:01:58.02
Keith
Yeah. What do you think about, what you think about the, the job, of the presidency since you're in, in the business itself?

00:02:06.19
Jay Steagall
and What do I think about POTUS?

00:02:09.59
Keith
Well, not about POTUS, but I mean, about about the whole, about his presidency so far.

00:02:16.37
Jay Steagall
Well, I think, yeah, well, you know, I think ah think the majority of Americans that voted for Trump for president ah this term got what they asked for out of his first 100 to 110 days.

00:02:16.38
Keith
Be as big, it be as negative or positive as you want, man.

00:02:37.15
Jay Steagall
um and, I mean, he delivered a lot of goods during that time, very, very quick. It seemed like on day one he was, you know, hitting the ground running, signing executive orders to do the things that he promised Americans that he was going to do.

00:02:52.52
Jay Steagall
and the ah I think the hurdle right now for the administration is answering for things that they said they were going to deliver but haven't yet.

00:03:04.79
Jay Steagall
such as the Epstein file situation. What does that does that really look like? and And of course, we can we go down the conspiracy trail on ah what's really going on with that entire situation. But I think the the underlying issue with Americans in regard to the Epstein file situation is they they don't have any answers on it.

00:03:30.96
Jay Steagall
And the administration really hasn't delivered a lot of answers on it either. So, you know, it just it kicks the door open for for either more conspiracies or firming up some that folks might already have.

00:03:47.68
Jay Steagall
But I think, you know, if the if the administration wants to improve upon its favorabilities, then, you know, it's going to have to look for for answers in situations like the Epstein files.

00:04:02.13
Keith
You know, I don't remember much of anybody talking much about the Epstein files and still until recently, uh, I have always been interested in what's going on with that whole thing. And I wanted his to roll. Um, but there's also been other things like, um,

00:04:19.39
Keith
I think, I think president Trump's doing exactly what, uh, what he said he was going to do is but for the most part. And, the and for the reason why I voted for him, uh, I'm not happy about the, um, we had the whole entire, ah you know, drone situation going on that he said he would have answers for. And then out of, out of the blue just said, Nope, nothing to see here. That pissed me off straight up.

00:04:42.25
Keith
Um, I didn't like the file, the fact that they dropped the Epstein files so quickly that that was interesting as well. Like that kind of brings up some questions, you know, for me, do I, does it, does it, uh, does it outweigh the good though?

00:04:53.12
Jay Steagall
Mm-hmm.

00:04:59.77
Keith
No, it doesn't. I mean, I think, I think, you know, he is, uh, he's delivered ah a crap load. I mean, more than any president I remember in my lifetime, that's for sure. Um, I'm a little upset that, uh, he hasn't, not him, but he's not able to solve the Ukraine situation.

00:05:18.50
Keith
um, and I don't know. I wouldn't even know where to begin. you know, if I was him, I wouldn't even know where to begin because other than going outright war with Russia, I'm not sure how you solve that at this point, but he did say over and over again, he was going to solve that week one and that didn't happen.

00:05:36.49
Keith
So, you know, it's difficult, right?

00:05:37.56
Jay Steagall
That's a difficult position to put yourself in as resident or anybody else. even That would have been a difficult position position for any other military power in the world to say, hey, we're um you know we're going to go fix this problem.

00:05:52.70
Jay Steagall
It's as simple as making a phone call. yeah I wish that were the case. We'd probably be trading lead with far fewer enemies if that was the case.

00:06:01.58
Keith
That's true.

00:06:02.59
Jay Steagall
So I applaud him for for you know taking a strong stance on wanting to put an end to that because it's in everybody's best interest.

00:06:14.91
Jay Steagall
Well, except for the Mick, but it's in everybody else's best interest for for the war to stop. But you know at the same time, I didn't really expect him to be able to to stop that only because of of my faith in and how I understand how grace is given.

00:06:40.69
Jay Steagall
and And I do not believe that the God gives us grace to solve conflict between two other people. that That conflict has to be solved between them, which is why, you know, it's easy for us to explain why we get involved in wars to begin with.

00:06:57.96
Jay Steagall
theres There's always been a conflict between two or more other parties where we've interjected ourselves. ah e World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War. You pick your poison.

00:07:10.23
Jay Steagall
There were two other parties there in a pissing match before we got involved.

00:07:18.24
Keith
That's interesting. You know, that's an interesting take. I didn't think about it the way that you just did. uh, but I would also assume, and I would add to that. I would also assume that, that ah yeah we would be blessed enough. Somebody would be blessed enough to be able to, ah to help the two sides talk.

00:07:39.31
Keith
You know i'm saying? To, to be, to be somebody in the middle to help them because obviously the two of them, the two, uh, uh, Zelensky, is it right? And Putin will will never be able to get in the same room together.

00:07:52.80
Jay Steagall
Yeah, it's always good to have a mediator, and that's what you're talking about.

00:07:56.28
Keith
A mediator, sure, yep.

00:07:57.49
Jay Steagall
and a mediator doesn't necessarily solve the problems. They can help guide the discussion so that the two interested parties can come to their own conclusion that it would be better for them to agree with what the mediator is trying to do. But ultimately, it's those two parties that have to make the agreement.

00:08:18.06
Jay Steagall
with or without the mediator.

00:08:20.21
Keith
And what an ah what an agreement that would be, though.

00:08:20.27
Jay Steagall
so oh Sure.

00:08:22.61
Keith
Think about it, though. they all what What has been lost so far? what would you i mean What would you ask for? Would you say we get to you know Russia gets to keep some of what they've already taken? Do they give everything up completely and just go home? I mean, it's it's a big ask.

00:08:38.81
Jay Steagall
Yeah. And now stepping in as a mediator and having to negotiate all those things can also put you in a, in a really weird situation should, um two and those two other entities decide to become allies after the whole thing is over and be pissed off at you because of the way you they got treated in the whole thing.

00:08:57.29
Keith
oh Yeah, and that throw China into the mix and we're screwed.

00:08:58.34
Jay Steagall
So,

00:09:01.65
Jay Steagall
yeah, yeah. it's ah It's a really weird situation, ah one that has to be handled delicately, obviously. And and and i'm not I'm not all poo-poo on on us getting involved where in situations where our national security is threatened or are our way of life is threatened or our interests abroad are threatened. By no means do I think we need to ah maintain anything less than a neutral position, but even Alexander Hamilton in the Federalist Papers would argue that you have to have a really strong military just to maintain neutrality.

00:09:39.35
Buddy
That's interesting right there.

00:09:40.88
Keith
That's a good point.

00:09:40.95
Jay Steagall
you

00:09:41.37
Keith
Yeah. And I didn't voice my opinion as much as, as, uh, I probably could have, but, I didn't like the whole situation in the first place. I mean, I get that a smaller, you know, the bully was picking on the smaller, the smaller guy. And that's usually when the U S jumps in, but the amount of money, taxpayer money that we spent,

00:10:04.11
Keith
And, and, and, uh, on that war, that's not, it has nothing really not much to do with us except for world peace just kills me. It's all, so all that money that we could have done in our own country. It just, it's, to me, it just seems like a huge waste, especially since the war is still going on and all those people are still dead.

00:10:22.31
Jay Steagall
Yeah, and that's the that's the dirty side of war is, you know, no matter how much money is pumped into it, when it gets but it gets bad, it gets really bad and lives get lost.

00:10:38.99
Jay Steagall
Civilians, innocent civilians are going to perish as a result of collateral damage.

00:10:45.96
Keith
Yeah, and I'm not real comfortable with the Ukrainian government anyway.

00:10:46.91
Jay Steagall
That's a good thing.

00:10:48.59
Keith
How much of that money ended up in people's pockets? You know, I don't know.

00:10:51.50
Jay Steagall
alex Yeah. How corrupt are they? what are they What are they actually doing with our taxpayer dollars? You know, they don't have a fiduciary responsibility like our elected officials do in making sure that our tax dollars are spent appropriately.

00:11:01.85
Keith
That's right.

00:11:06.90
Jay Steagall
you s we've been running oh Believe me, our federal our federal government has not cornered the market on

00:11:07.09
Keith
I mean, our our own Congress can't even do a good job at it. We sure know they're not doing a good job with it.

00:11:19.12
Jay Steagall
irresponsible spending. Yeah,

00:11:21.09
Keith
Right.

00:11:23.59
Keith
So what's the what what's the go ahead.

00:11:23.87
Buddy
I think we all know. ah

00:11:26.34
Keith
I'm sorry.

00:11:26.87
Buddy
I think we all know what they're doing with that money. ah You just have to follow the, follow the money, man.

00:11:33.43
Jay Steagall
interesting.

00:11:33.47
Keith
ah dance Dancers and drinks.

00:11:34.78
Jay Steagall
prison book yeah

00:11:36.24
Buddy
Yes. Tiny dancer and his new boats and houses. And ah yeah.

00:11:43.86
Jay Steagall
yeah

00:11:44.92
Buddy
So.

00:11:45.27
Jay Steagall
interesting

00:11:45.29
Keith
ah any any Anything on your in your end of the world that ah can tell us anything about China's position on pretty much anything now that Trump's in office?

00:11:57.23
Jay Steagall
Jane,

00:11:58.36
Keith
China.

00:11:59.16
Jay Steagall
a to you know, not really. um I'm watching it like everybody else is. where You know, I work at the state level, and I've been laser focused on what it is we're doing here in Oklahoma. But I try to keep a finger on the pulse, what's going on worldwide. the The trades between the United States and other countries is very much an interest of mine.

00:12:24.27
Jay Steagall
Because the the economy of things is really where the power is. it's It's not so much a military might by itself. That plays a plays a key part later, usually after the the money situation becomes a problem.

00:12:40.61
Jay Steagall
But, you know, so far I think ah think we owe ah son some things or a pat on the back, whatever you want to call it, to the administration for stepping up and in addressing the trade deficit that we have with foreign nations such as China.

00:12:59.28
Jay Steagall
and And the thing that I think we need to recognize there is that the U.S. accounts for approximately 70% of all exports from China.

00:13:11.47
Jay Steagall
So that's a huge leverage please for us.

00:13:12.66
Keith
That is massive. That's a huge chunk of their income.

00:13:16.26
Jay Steagall
It's tremendously huge, very bigly. You know, it's a that's something to recognize.

00:13:23.14
Keith
It's huge.

00:13:25.02
Jay Steagall
That's right. I've seen a lot of trade deficits. This is one of the biggest deficits. oh Listen, now you know, when we account, when the U.S. alone accounts for roughly 70% of the exports from any country, then that gives us a tremendous amount of leverage to ensure that these trade tariffs are set up squarely between those two nation countries and And for years, they haven't been.

00:13:55.15
Jay Steagall
the The deficit has been used as a political tool, just like anything else has been. But you stick somebody like Trump in office, who's a numbers guy, and he's looking how looking at ways to to make the economy more profitable here stateside, then he's going to take a look at everything as far as the way we're generating tax revenue,

00:14:17.67
Jay Steagall
where those sources are, who you know what they're comprised of, and who the players are, and figure out how to square things up. Well, if if he raises, it he did raise tariff rates on on Chinese imports into the U.S., what's China going to do?

00:14:33.38
Jay Steagall
We're 70% their exports.

00:14:36.26
Keith
Right. they'll What they'll do is they'll try and and and sell or export to other countries. And then we're going to or have already tariffed them for for, you know, at the same level, I would say, ta you know, tariff them. And I think so far, even though they've got a bad rap, I'm getting, I think so far the whole tariff war has proven pretty good so far for the United States.

00:14:58.48
Keith
Our prices are still little bit high. Economy is definitely getting better. But I think in the long run, it's going to it's going to work out pretty well. I heard something, I'm not even sure where I heard it from, Fox News or News Nation or something, saying something about the president wants to get rid of federal income tax, not state, but federal, but if if we're able to make the tariff situation successful.

00:15:17.02
Jay Steagall
Yeah.

00:15:20.94
Jay Steagall
Yeah, absolutely. and that's ah And that's a really good segue here into what we're doing here in Oklahoma. But I think ah where I heard that was on the Joe Rogan show where he was interviewing Trump prior to the election.

00:15:34.96
Jay Steagall
and ah And I think Trump made the comment, i'm going to paraphrase here, you know, he he says, you know, we need to get rid of the federal income tax. And Joe responds with, ah really? And he's like, well, yeah, why not?

00:15:47.14
Jay Steagall
And to his point, you know, there's there's a couple of couple of ways to look at this. And one is, if the federal government's just going to continue to print money anyway, then why bother collecting it? Because doesn't make any sense.

00:15:57.58
Keith
Good point.

00:15:58.50
Jay Steagall
right? And then two, if the federal government's really doing its constitutional duties and making sure that it's generating revenue from external sources such as tariffs, then these are expenses that are paid for by those that are importing or, excuse me, exporting goods to this country.

00:16:19.65
Jay Steagall
And they're going to have to either pass that along to the consumer ultimately, or they're going to have to eat that as an import tax or an export tax to this country But more importantly, what that does is it sets the stage for equal trade ah tariff values or costs between these two countries.

00:16:39.97
Jay Steagall
So now we we get to maintain these these trade channels where there's fairness and equity in the trade and we're valuing each other's labor costs or material costs just like we would for any other a commodity or good that's traded elsewhere.

00:16:57.57
Jay Steagall
This is why stock markets exist. you know It's exact same concept. It's just now we're talking about physical goods themselves ah that are being traded you know in and out of each of these countries' borders.

00:17:11.27
Jay Steagall
Excuse me. um So I think Trump is right on track and wanting to get rid of the the federal income tax. And you know something to remember here is we didn't have a federal income tax until 1913.

00:17:27.27
Keith
Is that right?

00:17:28.24
Jay Steagall
That's right. So ah it was ah it was an amendment to our U.S. Constitution.

00:17:35.78
Jay Steagall
all of

00:17:38.32
Buddy
Yeah, how do we survive that long without it?

00:17:38.38
Jay Steagall
like no Well, and that was that was Trump's point is, you know, up until the time that the 16th Amendment came along, the federal government had plenty of money.

00:17:52.82
Jay Steagall
And the beginning of the Industrial Revolution didn't happen during the depression, it happened years and years before that. Uh, you know, you take the years post, uh, civil war, um, coming off the heels of, of everything that was going on there. That's, that's really where we started seeing a boom in manufacturing here in the United States. Uh, even, even if you want to say it really started during the civil war, you can make that argument that that, that that's the case also.

00:18:19.08
Jay Steagall
But the, uh, but the, the,

00:18:22.16
Keith
so So we had goods, we were manufacturing and creating goods that the rest of the world wanted.

00:18:29.49
Jay Steagall
i Well, even if we wanted them internally, we had the manufacturing facilities. Of course, demand is is created in a few different ways as well. It just depends on what everybody's desires are or what's going on in the rest of the world.

00:18:43.68
Jay Steagall
Excuse me. but right

00:18:45.37
Keith
you use ah You said a segue into what you're doing in Oklahoma. What is it that you're doing?

00:18:50.89
Jay Steagall
So what we did this last year was we passed a bill that will put Oklahoma on a path to 0% state income tax

00:19:06.24
Jay Steagall
ah at some point. So I don't want to oversell this thing because if it if it works as it's written and no other changes taken into account, then we'll the state of Oklahoma will eventually get to 0% state income tax here in about 39 or 40 years.

00:19:28.50
Keith
Hmm.

00:19:29.16
Jay Steagall
I, uh, something I probably, does, doesn't it?

00:19:31.64
Keith
That sounds like a long time, man.

00:19:35.42
Jay Steagall
So

00:19:35.54
Keith
I mean, I came from Texas where there was no tax, no state taxes to Missouri where there's ridiculous state taxes where they just crush you here. it's It's horrible.

00:19:43.51
Jay Steagall
ah yeah, they penalize you for, for living. So, uh, I, I introduced a bill a couple of years ago, ah that put us on a path to zero, but it was over a fixed period of time of 10 years and had a bunch of people.

00:19:57.81
Keith
That's reasonable.

00:19:58.95
Jay Steagall
Yeah. They said, well, why 10 years? And I said, well, ah believe me, if I could flip a switch and turn it off right now, that's exactly what I'd do. And there's nothing to keep us as legislators from amending current law, you know, in the future either.

00:20:12.57
Jay Steagall
So if we find a way to to get in there and and legislate some true tax reform, you know, we streamline our revenue systems, we would take away unnecessary regulation, we make it cheaper for, yep, exactly, reduce our overall spending, ah then...

00:20:23.16
Keith
Cut spending.

00:20:28.75
Jay Steagall
then we can get to this a lot faster and and be able to provide our taxpayers with a better understanding of how their tax dollars are are collected and then spent.

00:20:41.43
Jay Steagall
So it's it's an accountability and transparency measure that we really need. and And it's true in every state and it's true at every single level. that no one No one entity in our system of government is exempt from the need of responsibility and transparency in the spending of taxpayers dollars.

00:21:00.79
Jay Steagall
There's lots of room ah for improvement there.

00:21:01.30
Keith
Mm-hmm.

00:21:04.56
Jay Steagall
But the ah the interesting thing about about the income tax isn't isn't the argument of eliminating it from a fiscal perspective. The interesting part of this to me is the constitutional provisions in our state constitution that actually says this All persons have the inherent right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the enjoyment of the gains of their own industry.

00:21:38.25
Keith
Ah, see, now I like that line.

00:21:38.42
Jay Steagall
Yeah, everybody skits their way. I do too. So what is that what does that say? it It says my paycheck is off limits. It says my property is off limits. These are the gains of my own industry.

00:21:54.47
Jay Steagall
The thing that I make for myself is mine and no one should be able to lay claim to that.

00:22:02.69
Buddy
And why aren't they doing it already?

00:22:02.76
Keith
Yeah, but they do. they do

00:22:05.31
Jay Steagall
you know Yeah, good question.

00:22:07.53
Buddy
Wow.

00:22:11.12
Jay Steagall
ah But that's but something I'm working on there.

00:22:11.38
Buddy
Hey,

00:22:13.17
Jay Steagall
But anyway.

00:22:14.47
Keith
Yeah. When you're, when, when you're done with that, come over here to Missouri and help us out over here.

00:22:14.72
Buddy
I, I,

00:22:19.93
Buddy
is

00:22:20.15
Jay Steagall
Isn't that the show me state? Yeah, show me.

00:22:21.59
Buddy
in

00:22:22.41
Keith
It sure is. Yeah.

00:22:24.63
Buddy
I'm not from Missouri, but you got to show me. It's like Oklahoma is okay. Oklahoma, okay.

00:22:31.73
Jay Steagall
Oh, no, no.

00:22:31.76
Keith
So, uh,

00:22:32.94
Jay Steagall
We have a new state model now. It's imagine that.

00:22:36.28
Buddy
Shit.

00:22:36.36
Keith
imagine that.

00:22:37.40
Jay Steagall
Imagine that.

00:22:39.03
Buddy
Hey,

00:22:39.08
Keith
So buddy, why, why did you bring a Jay on today?

00:22:42.77
Buddy
well, about...

00:22:43.12
Keith
Not that we don't like talking to him I'm just wondering. you know i mean –

00:22:45.12
Buddy
Well, I have a question before we we go there. I read something something that Native Americans, if they, ah in Oklahoma, if they gain income inside the reservation, they can't be taxed on it.

00:22:47.58
Jay Steagall
yeah have that question

00:22:59.81
Buddy
Is that true? Do know anything about that?

00:23:01.53
Jay Steagall
I think that, you know, I think there was a court case recently to discuss just that. And don't quote me on this, but I believe the Oklahoma Supreme Court has recently ruled on that, that um that tribal members would not be exempt from paying income tax on income income earned no matter where it was in the state.

00:23:27.62
Buddy
Okay.

00:23:27.88
Keith
do Do tribal... do do How do I word this? Do tribal member to tribal people have a tribal government?

00:23:36.88
Jay Steagall
They do.

00:23:37.64
Keith
Well, then who pays for that if they're not paying taxes?

00:23:42.38
Jay Steagall
Well, they are paying taxes. Yeah.

00:23:44.85
Keith
Just not state taxes or...

00:23:47.25
Jay Steagall
They pay state income taxes. there There was a case where, so this court case surrounded individual tribal member who was making the argument that tribal members should not pay state income taxes.

00:23:49.56
Keith
Oh...

00:24:03.65
Jay Steagall
Now, what's interesting in this is I would 100% agree with that. I don't think anybody should be paying income taxes.

00:24:11.84
Jay Steagall
But that's not what our statutes say. Our income tax laws in Oklahoma were created statutorily, coincidentally enough, back in 1915, just two years after the adoption of the U.S. Constitutional Amendment, which allowed Congress to levy and collect a federal income tax from every individual.

00:24:33.69
Keith
Yeah, they saw the writing on the wall and they jumped on it.

00:24:36.23
Jay Steagall
Yeah, and I went back and and tried to do some research on this. i I thought it would be interesting. ah To compare notes on who in the Oklahoma legislature voted to ratify the 16th Amendment versus who out of our Oklahoma legislature voted to ratify the statutory requirement for us to collect a state income tax as well. And there's a good chance that it was the same group of knuckleheads that violated their oath of office in doing so.

00:25:07.76
Jay Steagall
But, ah you know, and and let's and let's be real clear about something too. our Our tribal ah partners here in Oklahoma have been a really good asset to Oklahoma. They bring in a lot of money ah from out of state and they invest a lot of money in Oklahoma.

00:25:24.41
Jay Steagall
They spend billions of dollars every year pumping that money into not just our local economy, but into our schools and roads and other infrastructure needs.

00:25:38.74
Jay Steagall
they They do a lot for the for the state of Oklahoma. there Yeah,

00:25:42.08
Buddy
Yeah, the best roads are the tribal casinos. For sure.

00:25:45.90
Jay Steagall
yeah they they've been really good partners to the state for sure.

00:25:48.28
Buddy
Yeah.

00:25:49.82
Jay Steagall
And they've been good neighbors. I'll give them that. And and on a lot of these lot of these cases, I'll agree with them. i I think the Supreme Court decision wasn't wrong in that they were weighing their decision against current statute.

00:26:07.95
Jay Steagall
But I think the Supreme Court also missed an opportunity to weigh in on Article 2, Section 2 in our state constitution, which says no one should be paying state income tax.

00:26:21.02
Jay Steagall
and And I wish I could have visited with the but the attorney team that was representing this tribal member. I would have ran that past them and said, hey, you know, I 110% agree with you. and And here's an angle for you that to approach the bench with.

00:26:38.72
Jay Steagall
But anyway, i digest. That's my argument. Yeah,

00:26:44.33
Keith
You know, yeah and this this is not an income tax episode. It's just interesting that it's interesting when you go down that road, how much there is to talk about. ah There really is. And I think i think it hits a lot of people because every single person in the United States and probably other countries, but can feel and know what we're talking about every single time you make a paycheck.

00:27:03.99
Jay Steagall
yeah absolutely.

00:27:04.22
Buddy
I

00:27:04.63
Jay Steagall
and And there's always this sense, you know, when you do get that paycheck that something was taken from you that you didn't consent to.

00:27:14.68
Keith
Definitely.

00:27:15.68
Jay Steagall
and it doesn't.

00:27:15.98
Buddy
yeah i was ra

00:27:16.01
Keith
Yeah. And when you pay state taxes in Missouri, you got I mean, we're paying for vehicles that we, that we bought and paid for 100%. We own them now, but we still have to pay the the state of Missouri because we own vehicles, because we own a trailer, because we own this, we own that. You own a boat.

00:27:34.19
Keith
You got to pay taxes on it every single year, even though you bought, even though you bought it outright and you own it. It's not even a sales tax. They just, they're just going tax you because you own it. It's crazy.

00:27:44.80
Jay Steagall
Yeah.

00:27:45.61
Buddy
You will own nothing and you'll like it.

00:27:48.15
Jay Steagall
It is. It's really interesting. You know, if we're, I mean, I know we're we're kind of off topic here, but if we really wanted to talk about the need for registering a vehicle, then the entity that we need to be registering that vehicle with is the insurance carrier.

00:28:04.37
Keith
Ooh.

00:28:05.14
Jay Steagall
If that thing, if that vehicle ends up stolen or ends up in a car accident, I don't call the state and say, hey, wrecked my car. i need to work this insurance claim. Can you guys help me? They'll they'll laugh you off the phone, right?

00:28:18.26
Jay Steagall
Who do I call?

00:28:18.54
Keith
Okay.

00:28:18.78
Jay Steagall
I call an insurance company. Or if this thing ends missing, I'm going to file a police report, but I would do that anyway. It's piece of stolen property. But the guys that are going to end up having to compensate me for this loss or are, the you know, whoever the insurance carrier is.

00:28:32.53
Jay Steagall
And guess what they've got to happen, you know?

00:28:32.87
Buddy
That's interesting. That's an interesting angle right there. i That's never even crossed my mind. Wow.

00:28:39.12
Jay Steagall
So anyway, we have a have a provision here in Oklahoma that allows for you know some of these smaller utility trailers not to be registered with the state of Oklahoma.

00:28:50.52
Jay Steagall
Well, I have one that's not registered, but because it's not a requirement, it's also a hassle to get one registered. Now, why would I want one why would i want to register that trailer here in Oklahoma? Not because I need it not because i need tagged in Oklahoma, but I can't drag it to Texas. they require all right They require ah every trailer on the back but on the back of vehicle to have a tag on it.

00:29:13.48
Buddy
yeah

00:29:14.14
Jay Steagall
So anyway, there's all these goofy, inconsistent laws that we have to and work through every time we want to do something with our own stuff. And it's just to me, it's just weird.

00:29:28.47
Buddy
It's theft.

00:29:28.77
Jay Steagall
But we'll fix it.

00:29:31.37
Buddy
Taxation is theft.

00:29:34.66
Keith
Buddy, it's all you.

00:29:36.10
Buddy
Yeah, you know, we're halfway through this episode already, and I have more questions about stuff. ah Jay, if I'm not mistaken, you're ah you have a degree in economics?

00:29:47.71
Jay Steagall
that That's right. I've got an agricultural economics degree from Oklahoma State University there in Stillwater. Graduated back in December of 2002.

00:30:00.53
Buddy
Wow. You're old. Yeah.

00:30:03.28
Jay Steagall
I'm old.

00:30:04.51
Buddy
yeah

00:30:04.58
Jay Steagall
I heard everybody deal with middle mouth.

00:30:04.61
Keith
I got i got a degree and ah got a degree in redneck economics. Everybody gets what they get.

00:30:11.25
Buddy
Yeah, and you don't throw a fit.

00:30:14.56
Buddy
Well, I mean, at this point, we can we can pivot into the episode or we can keep talking about the Trump train.

00:30:19.68
Keith
Yeah, we're not going to use the full... No, no, we're not going to use the full 30 minutes that we just used on that. though we'll We'll prick some of that up and cut it down. I just wanted some fodder, you know, just for...

00:30:28.71
Buddy
I was going to say, yeah yeah or you can have a whole episode on it, you know, the shorter episode.

00:30:33.26
Keith
I think, I think a listeners like, they like to listen to Jay. So a couple of little, you know, hits here and there about different things is is cool.

00:30:38.27
Buddy
Yeah, yeah.

00:30:41.16
Keith
So yeah, go ahead and break into what you wanted to talk about, buddy.

00:30:45.16
Buddy
All right, well, we're bringing Jay Stiegel on today, and we're going to talk about the Shit Hits the Fan communications, or Shit Hits the Fan radio. um He is a subject matter expert in this field, teaches classes to people who want to communicate ah when the grid's down.

00:31:03.98
Buddy
And we're glad to have him here, and and lucky, actually, to have him, because he has he's a wealth of knowledge, and, you know, the there's a lot of questions I have. Uh, I have set in many of his classes and and learned a lot, but, um, you know, a lot of people out there in the prepper world, they're, uh, in the survivalists, they, you know, this is a ah weak link they have, you know, they might own $20 Balfang radio or ah ah Some kind of radio they bought at Walmart and they might not know how to use it.

00:31:37.19
Buddy
So our goal isn't really how to teach you how to use it on this episode, but more to, you know, go over the capabilities, some of the limitations, capabilities, and and why you need to use them in a grid down situation and kind of um how you need to use them.

00:31:52.05
Keith
No, but so, buddy, you and you do a lot on the you talk a lot about the Baofangs and the radios and all that sort of thing.

00:31:58.19
Jay Steagall
for

00:32:00.37
Keith
What um so since we have Jay on what is Jay, what are you how do you get involved with radios and all that?

00:32:09.73
Jay Steagall
Oh, hey. First, thanks for having me on today. this ah This radio communications piece is really, really important when it comes to you know the survivor mindset in ah in a key piece in a kit, in any kit.

00:32:27.89
Jay Steagall
you know Buddy and I have ah have a background of you know Army recon. I got tired of walking everywhere, so i went over to the air Force about seven years into this. but the ah The thing that I walked away with ah out of being a scout was knowing that the most dangerous piece of equipment on that battlefield was the radio.

00:32:47.71
Jay Steagall
that you know As far as dangerous, ah dangerous to our enemy. It was also dangerous against us. So the communications was so vital to the success or failure of a mission that a lot of times the RTO became the most important person on the battlefield.

00:33:04.87
Jay Steagall
So to get involved, ah to your question, Keith, to get involved and in the in the radio world, really ah the first step is go buy a radio.

00:33:17.86
Jay Steagall
You know, there's There's really inexpensive options out there for folks. there's There's the you know small $20 Baofeng type programmable radios for those that are interested in and diving off into that.

00:33:32.11
Jay Steagall
There's also the ah handheld ah GMRS walkie talkie type radios or FRS radios that you can buy at almost any big box store for not a lot of money.

00:33:45.16
Jay Steagall
ah and then there's plenty of online options as well. But I think the key piece here is just to understand that you're going to need something. And the fact that the that handheld radios are are very prolific here in the United States helps us understand what kind of network we might have available should our traditional communications systems go down, even if it's just for a short while.

00:34:15.48
Jay Steagall
These radios can serve not just as a two-way communication piece, but they can also serve as a it a very valuable tool for listening into the local weather or listening to ah information coming off of the repeater or ah other transmitting station.

00:34:36.01
Jay Steagall
So there's there's a lot of things that these radios can do for us in maintaining radio communications with other folks that may be on shouting distance, you know.

00:34:49.63
Jay Steagall
So anyway, I would encourage anyone that doesn't have a radio, just go buy something. either Either jump online and look for, you know, these $25 or $30 Balfang radios. Just pick one.

00:35:05.12
Jay Steagall
Or go buy good GMRS radio. Midland makes a... A lot of options for not a lot of money. And of course, I would always encourage if you're going to buy one, buy two.

00:35:21.04
Jay Steagall
One is none, two is one type deal.

00:35:22.76
Buddy
And you gotta, you gotta talk to somebody too.

00:35:25.62
Jay Steagall
Yeah. Yeah. Not a lot of people, not everybody wants to listen to me talk, but it'd be nice if someone was listening as I was talking. you know

00:35:36.39
Buddy
yeah

00:35:36.52
Jay Steagall
But anyway, um these become very, very important tools for, you know, downed communications ah scenario.

00:35:47.76
Jay Steagall
So Buddy and I got to witness this firsthand out in eastern Tennessee last October, November, when Hurricane Helene started. went through that area.

00:35:59.05
Jay Steagall
there was a There was a small community that had been cut off from the rest of the world because of the floods. The roads were washed out. There's no way in or out. And getting in there on foot was extremely dangerous as well. So there was no passage to get to this community with a vehicle, four-wheeled vehicle, two-wheeled vehicle, side-by-side,

00:36:23.66
Jay Steagall
horses, mules, trekking in there on foot was about the only way to do that. But the outside world would have to know to go there to begin with. But because there was one individual in that community that had one of these little $25, $30 Baofeng radios and a basic understanding of how to use the thing, he was able to communicate with a ham operator outside of that little community and was able to get those folks some assistance.

00:36:59.61
Jay Steagall
And so we had we had recon teams that would show up and with with another organization, Grindstone Ministries. they They rigged up a rope system and and found a way to get in there on foot and they were delivering food, water, medical supplies.

00:37:17.85
Jay Steagall
And then that evolved into working he helicopter transport for for all those supplies, and exfilling things like ah sewage and waste, trash.

00:37:35.14
Jay Steagall
you know there's There's all these sanitation needs that have to be addressed in that scenario as well. so Without that one little radio, these people would have been in a lot worse shape.

00:37:47.85
Jay Steagall
One dude in a community of about 200 people very, very important piece of kit.

00:37:51.73
Buddy
Yeah, little $20 radio, he saved countless lives. I don't know. There were 60, 80 people in that town, maybe more. I don't know.

00:38:01.83
Buddy
Yeah.

00:38:02.60
Jay Steagall
Yeah, I thought the count was closer to 200. Maybe it was a little lower, but the the point we're both making here is that is ah that is the perfect example of the situation we're talking about

00:38:05.48
Buddy
Yeah.

00:38:17.95
Jay Steagall
where travel may not be an option. but I might have the ability to get a radio signal out and and hope that somebody else out there is listening.

00:38:29.32
Jay Steagall
So anyway, that's that's why I would encourage anybody just to go buy a radio. Go get that piece of kit first. as soon as you can afford to buy that piece of kit, go get it. And then then we'll talk about how to use it.

00:38:42.74
Buddy
Yeah, and Brett.

00:38:42.98
Keith
Yeah. Wasn't that the same story, buddy, that but we had Brett on bret Brett?

00:38:46.89
Buddy
Yeah.

00:38:47.18
Keith
Yeah.

00:38:47.74
Jay Steagall
yeah Yeah, same story.

00:38:48.06
Buddy
Yep.

00:38:48.86
Jay Steagall
Yeah, same situation.

00:38:49.39
Keith
He told us about that. Yeah. So the, the radios that I have, um ah which are the, the Baofeng UV five, our eight Watts. I, I'm not going to say that somebody showed me how to unlock them to do something of that.

00:39:04.78
Keith
Cause that would be wrong to do, but, but, but that become, if you were to do that, that now becomes a GM RS radio.

00:39:06.79
Buddy
That's illegal. Yes.

00:39:13.54
Jay Steagall
Yeah, it's I think you're hitting on something there, Keith, that we need to make sure our our listeners understand. During a declared emergency situation, if you're down to utilizing a a two-way radio and that's your only mean means of communication, then it doesn't matter.

00:39:31.22
Jay Steagall
All right, nobody's going to come get you and write you a ticket or come confiscate your equipment. This is an emergency.

00:39:35.85
Keith
Gotcha. Okay. Okay.

00:39:36.82
Jay Steagall
right smooth this

00:39:37.06
Keith
Gotcha.

00:39:37.71
Jay Steagall
and The FCC rules state... Hey, during an emergency when there's no other communications means available, do what you need to do. don't Don't put yourself in a worse situation simply because you're afraid to hit that push to talk button.

00:39:54.39
Jay Steagall
No one is going to care.

00:39:55.50
Keith
And I guess my point would be saying is that the, that the inexpensive radios that I bought seem to be really well made can be jailbroken to, to work like a ham radio.

00:40:07.44
Jay Steagall
Yeah, absolutely. and And I'll agree with you on on the UV-5Rs from, you know, made by Baofeng. There are several different models of those, but I've had a lot of success with utilizing that UV-5R 8 watt. That's a great little radio.

00:40:23.42
Jay Steagall
And you're right, they are built well. ah you know I haven't tried to drop one out of the boat into the lake and then see if it'll work. They're so inexpensive.

00:40:36.20
Jay Steagall
They're $25, $30 a piece. Sometimes you can find a deal on them. you know there're They're water repellent to some level, but that's not waterproof by any stretch.

00:40:47.59
Keith
right

00:40:49.16
Jay Steagall
but They're so inexpensive that you know if something does happen to it, throw that sucker away and pick up the next one and go. Yeah. so Um, you know, I don't get paid a commission by Baofeng. I'm not an affiliate seller of their product directly. So that's a, that's a free plug.

00:41:06.94
Jay Steagall
Um,

00:41:07.02
Keith
ah But, you know, it could also be like a gateway radio for somebody to get really interested and learn how to use a radio to get into the bigger, more expensive ones, right?

00:41:07.41
Jay Steagall
yeah

00:41:12.79
Buddy
Oh, it is. It's definitely...

00:41:14.88
Jay Steagall
yeah, absolutely. So these things got all kinds of options on them. Uh, there's there's really more than that $25 to $30 worth of value to these things, especially when you think about the fact that this guy in this little community just used one to save maybe a couple hundred people's lives.

00:41:34.20
Jay Steagall
you know What kind of price tag do you put on that? But this UV5R 8-watt of mine was acquired after I had four of the 5-watt radios.

00:41:49.53
Jay Steagall
And I can throw this this little 771 antenna on this thing and reach a repeater that's 13 and a half miles away with no problem.

00:42:03.63
Jay Steagall
That's a lot of distance out of a little five-watt radio. That eight-watt radio does even better. But it's a it's ah it's a very cheap, versatile piece of equipment.

00:42:17.69
Jay Steagall
Now I've also got...

00:42:18.08
Keith
Yep. $20 with all the trimmings. And if you want to spend 30, you can get a two pack and you can even get, but you know, other type of packs out there with, you know, with, with those. um I don't understand it. One day we're going to have to talk about the whole repeater thing. Cause even after I've talked with, with buddy and Jeremy about it, I still don't understand how that all works and and why some people won't let you use them and and all kinds of weird stuff about that. I don't get it.

00:42:41.62
Keith
Maybe I'm not smart enough to understand it. I don't know.

00:42:44.29
Jay Steagall
But most of these repeaters are privately owned. So, you know, the owner of that equipment is going to be the gatekeeper as far as its usage goes. But, you know, I'm kind of with you and in an emergency situation. be nice if if our neighbors were a little nicer with the with the use of that equipment.

00:43:04.26
Jay Steagall
But it is theirs. And I don't like people flying my airplane, so i'm not going to try to fly anybody else's. But, you know, the the repeater itself is basically just an extension tool, you know, for your outgoing signal or an incoming message.

00:43:21.98
Jay Steagall
They're relatively simple to set up. Buddy and I have have set up tactical repeaters it work really well. And depending on the equipment that we use for those tactical repeaters, ah you know we can rebroadcast well beyond that 13.5 beyond line of sight capability with it.

00:43:42.64
Jay Steagall
So ah I wouldn't ah wouldn't poo-poo on the idea of getting used to to hooking up to a repeater or using one or we're setting one up.

00:43:53.14
Jay Steagall
There's a little bit of a learning curve with it, but after you build one, it all makes sense. oh All this is is two radios. One of them is receiving my call and the other one is retransmitting it.

00:44:04.26
Jay Steagall
Got it. Piece of cake.

00:44:07.10
Keith
Got it. That makes more sense that saying it that way. Bottom line, what's the what's the lowest cost you could get away with with building a repeater that actually works?

00:44:17.00
Buddy
No.

00:44:17.12
Jay Steagall
Um, well, uh, the most simple repeater, let's, look let's, let's go back to the homestead. Okay. let's Let's, let's forget about trying to reach the people in the next county or the next state. Let's just, let's extend our radio communications capabilities to work on our homestead.

00:44:35.64
Jay Steagall
So if you were to take a pair of these bow fangs, plus a couple of other attachments, you could set up a repeater system for less than a hundred dollars and extend your capabilities.

00:44:47.55
Jay Steagall
or even mask some of your communications, which is a really valuable tactical piece to it. So there's, there's a lot of capabilities there for, for under a hundred bucks.

00:44:59.78
Jay Steagall
Now you're, you're not gonna, you're not gonna get a lot of distance out of those smaller setups, but that's really not the plan. and The plan is to, uh,

00:45:11.93
Jay Steagall
you know, here again on the homestead, be able to extend my communications or mask part of my communications from the outside world and only transmit that signal the distance that I need to to cover my homestead.

00:45:28.24
Buddy
And that's a very good point. That tactical, you know, piece that a lot of people, you know, in the prepper world, you know, we're all really concerned about, you know, I don't want anybody to know this or that, you know, so, and you can, you can use that to, you know, for your, I guess, what's where I'm trying to think of, buddy's brain isn't working right now.

00:45:54.52
Jay Steagall
Well, it works as ah as a good signal masking mechanism, you will.

00:45:57.26
Buddy
Yeah. ah clint You know, clandestine is what was looking for. Some clandestine actions. You know, if you did have to defend your your homestead a little bit, you you've got a little bit with that, with these repeaters. But, man, I will say they work great for under $100.

00:46:13.93
Buddy
And, yeah, they they reach out there. It'll give you some reach. And then, you know, really for a little over $1,000, you start stepping up to ah lot of reach. Yeah.

00:46:28.79
Jay Steagall
Yeah, you can get into some fancier setups with a lot more capability and be able to provide those repeater services to folks outside of your homestead.

00:46:39.84
Jay Steagall
You know, some of these repeats repeater systems that Buddy's mentioned in here for the $1,000 plus range, you can get, you know, 40, 50 miles out of them if if you're in, you know, pretty open terrain or outside of,

00:46:58.12
Jay Steagall
you know, the downtown area where the skyscrapers are, you can get some pretty good range out of them. Very, very valuable tool. But that's something, you know, if you invest that kind of money in that type of equipment, then the expectation is I'm using it well beyond, say, where my area of operation is.

00:47:17.68
Jay Steagall
I want to be able to communicate outside of that and and be able to receive communications from outsiders.

00:47:24.08
Keith
Right. And we're using them just Rhonda and I here at the homestead. We just, we, you know, she, we can talk to each other at the B yard and not have to worry about, you know, cell phone connection or anything like that.

00:47:34.70
Keith
Cause it's out in the woods. You're, you can't get cell phone connection. It's very difficult, but you know, you flip up on with these bow fangs and you're, you're talking like you're on on a phone.

00:47:39.00
Jay Steagall
Yeah.

00:47:43.06
Keith
No problem.

00:47:45.33
Jay Steagall
Yeah, that's right. ah So here's something else to consider since you brought it up. Cell phones are not necessarily a dead tool if we lose cell phone communications.

00:48:00.31
Jay Steagall
So Buddy and I have been playing with this app called Rattlegram. And you' using an ADS-B cable between our phones and these Baofangs, the Rattlegram app will allow you to type out a text message and transmit that over your radio to another receiver who's got the same system, and they can receive that text message.

00:48:32.73
Jay Steagall
Now, the cool thing about this is it's transmitted as an audio signal, not a digital signal. So you can play with this even outside of an emergency situation.

00:48:45.43
Jay Steagall
It's perfectly legal to transmit audio signals over GMRS or FRS. And even even your ham freaks, if you've got a ham license,

00:48:59.23
Jay Steagall
So this is ah this is a really neat tool that you can use during peacetime operations and get familiar with it and give you the ability to somewhat mask your message and cut down on traffic over a busy signal.

00:49:14.11
Keith
if that's If that's a tech ah technology that works, then somewhere between the two radios, between the phone and the radio, the language is being and you know understood, like they're speaking to each other, right? Right.

00:49:30.51
Jay Steagall
That's right.

00:49:30.52
Keith
yeah your Your phone is texting to a radio. Your radio is somehow turning that into a signal, which sends it to another radio, which sends it to a phone back to a text again.

00:49:39.52
Jay Steagall
Yeah.

00:49:39.54
Keith
Why would these radios like Balfang's just have that capability of texting?

00:49:45.34
Jay Steagall
i don't I don't know. They probably can't put that in there for $20 would be my guess. But um consistently the ah the cool thing about.

00:49:54.31
Keith
they that They would be they'd be selling radios like hotcakes, man. i'll tell you right now.

00:49:57.66
Jay Steagall
Oh, man. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. and And there may be that capability out there. I don't know. But here's the thing to think about. You know, you go buy the radio, the $20 radio, and it's either like a $15 or $20 cable the that, you know, mates up between that and your device and you're set, right?

00:50:19.72
Jay Steagall
Now, here's the cool thing.

00:50:19.87
Keith
wow

00:50:20.87
Jay Steagall
You don't have to have the cable. The only reason we have that we use the cable is so that I don't have to hold this phone up to the radio for it to work.

00:50:31.98
Jay Steagall
Here's how the app works. You type your text message in and you hit hit the transmit button in the app on your phone and it converts that text message over to an audio output.

00:50:48.07
Jay Steagall
You remember the the the old dial-up sounds from Are you old enough to remember dial up internet?

00:50:54.14
Keith
Oh yeah.

00:50:55.06
Jay Steagall
Okay. So exactly.

00:50:55.31
Keith
Yeah.

00:50:55.36
Buddy
Eh, oh, eh.

00:50:58.54
Jay Steagall
So that's what, ah that's what's happening inside of this app. It's converting all of these characters into those sounds and your, your radio, if you hit your push to talk button on the radio, while that thing is playing, then it'll pick it up and transmit it. Just like if you were talking.

00:51:16.05
Jay Steagall
Right. So the person on the other end has their phone up and they've got a radio very close to their cell phone, and when that signal comes through and that audio sound is played, then that app, if it's open, is listening.

00:51:31.88
Jay Steagall
It will receive that message and decode it for you. We've had a lot more success in sending and receiving these messages with a cable versus not using a cable because you don't pick up all the background noise plus the radio gets you know the beginning of the message all the way to the end and and we ah we set the vox setting on the radios at like three so that as soon as something goes into that input side on the radio it keys up that push to talk button for you you don't have to push it

00:52:05.65
Jay Steagall
So it it goes through as soon as you sit and hit that transmit button in the app. It's very effective. We've we've had a lot of success with it. There are limitations to it like anything else.

00:52:16.29
Jay Steagall
and they The programmers, the developers are still playing with it some, but the product that I have out there right now works pretty doggone good.

00:52:25.21
Buddy
And the only, only thing I don't like about it, um, it's really not that big an issue because you, it's a, we have a workaround for it, but as, uh, if somebody else has rattle gram out there in your vicinity that you're sending it, they can actually read your messages. They can read, and same thing we can read theirs.

00:52:44.00
Buddy
So, um,

00:52:44.09
Jay Steagall
Sure. And that's if we're on the same frequency, right? So they've.

00:52:47.09
Buddy
yeah on the same frequency, there's a lot of things that play into it, but it's, it's possible, but we work the workaround for us is we, we have reports we can send that unless they have the solution to our reports and, uh, you know, they're not going to break the code.

00:52:51.93
Jay Steagall
Sure.

00:53:02.38
Buddy
So, but it,

00:53:03.81
Jay Steagall
The only missing piece in this communications conversation really after this is is the pace plan itself. And that's that's another big, long discussion. but PACE is short for primary alternate contingency and emergency. So there's there's these different signals that you and and your family or you and your team would use in this comp plan ah to ensure that you can always talk to each other.

00:53:32.12
Jay Steagall
And that there's a lot to that. There's a big, big, big discussion to be had about PACE planning. But the good news is i know a guy that's developed a program and where you can set up your own PACE plan very simple.

00:53:46.07
Jay Steagall
and utilize it and get everybody in your group on the same page relatively fast. So we can save that for another time if you want to. But having a calm plan is definitely just as important as having the radio itself.

00:54:01.96
Buddy
yeah that's good point. The radio first step, and then having a plan second. Well, I guess second, you need to really figure out how to use them, and then third would be the plan.

00:54:13.00
Keith
Yeah, ah excuse me. i want I want to jump in. Not now, but I want to definitely want to jump into that pace plan. That sounds like something fun to talk about.

00:54:20.66
Buddy
Oh, ah there's so many different directions you can go with this. You know, i I know we're getting towards the end of our our time here, but one thing I do want to touch on and I want Jay to touch on is, you know, there's some limitations to these radios.

00:54:36.82
Buddy
We have people come to our classes that have some misconceptions on actually what the capabilities of radios are. So I think Jay knows exactly what I'm talking about here.

00:54:48.80
Jay Steagall
Yeah, our number one question is, you know, how far will these things reach? and And the only answer we can give them is, well, it depends because it does.

00:54:59.75
Buddy
says Yeah, they don't like that.

00:55:01.29
Jay Steagall
They don't like of that answer. They want to know, no how far will this thing reach? Well, you got to remember, we're talking about either a 5 or 8 watt radio that operates in two different frequency bands that have the capability of reaching out there you know, a fairly good distance, but there's a lot of factors that you have to consider when trying to figure out how far something will reach and power isn't the only piece of that equation.

00:55:28.69
Jay Steagall
There's also the terrain. There's also the, you know, are you in town where there's a lot of buildings, a lot of um RF magnets like power lines or big buildings or things of that sort. And then, you know, what kind of antenna are you running?

00:55:45.87
Jay Steagall
You know, what is what does that look like? What's your ground plane situation? You know, i mean, there's all these these other things to nerd out on to enhance your youre communications capabilities during these emergencies.

00:56:00.34
Jay Steagall
But it's go to always going to boil down to this. How far do you need it to reach? How far do you need to communicate? and And that's something that You know, individuals are going to have to have to figure out on their own. I can't answer that question for them, just like they they can't answer that question for me.

00:56:22.01
Jay Steagall
But, you know, if if I know what my communication needs are, then I can get the equipment that will give me that kind of capability.

00:56:32.56
Jay Steagall
And I just need to know what to look for. And then Buddy hit on this. Well, you know, OK, I got I got this equipment. How do I use it? So there's the there's the training question.

00:56:44.66
Jay Steagall
So Buddy and I host some radio training classes. We've got everything from the basic understandings of you know how to use these little Balfang radios to building antennas to you know we've got a 100 series course on ah antenna theory. So we'll get into you know building some antennas. And then We've got a set of four classes in a 200 series where we're doing all kinds of other things like building a repeater ah and and pace planning and scanning, direction finding, all of these other very valuable skill sets to have if we're talking about the communications piece as a whole.

00:57:25.32
Jay Steagall
So anyway, I'm sure Buddy can can get people directed over to where that training is available when we have it. Yeah. Anyway, there's a lot to it. and

00:57:35.62
Keith
I would love to see how you guys try and and do something online because yeah we there's a lot of folks that would like to take some of those classes that don't have them available in their area that could not that can't make it to Oklahoma.

00:57:48.96
Buddy
yeah and Yeah, I mean, shit.

00:57:49.08
Jay Steagall
Why wouldn't you come to Oklahoma?

00:57:54.38
Buddy
ah is Because it's 100 degrees right now? ah No, i mean we you we've talked about the online thing. Man, we've if you knew what we really were into, all these different things going on and stuff, it's it's kind of hard.

00:58:11.64
Keith
It's a lot of work.

00:58:11.68
Buddy
You know, there's only so many...

00:58:12.39
Keith
I get it. Yeah.

00:58:13.22
Buddy
Well, it's so many hours in a day, but um I'm working on on another thing. I'm working on some classes where I'm going to hit the road.

00:58:24.51
Buddy
um and So I've asked Jay to consider the radio classes because I can, you know, couple these places and Keith, they're going to close to you. we yeah I got one that I'm finalizing some stuff that'll be fairly close to you to where

00:58:43.06
Keith
Missouri's a big place, man. What are you time about? Close.

00:58:44.87
Buddy
Yeah, well, it's, a

00:58:46.12
Jay Steagall
That's

00:58:46.66
Keith
you're You're five and a half hours from me, aren't you? Something like that. Oklahoma City, right? Somewhere over in that area?

00:58:50.98
Buddy
ah yeah yeah, somewhere in that area. So,

00:58:53.41
Jay Steagall
ah pretty close.

00:58:53.49
Keith
So it's five and a half hours from my house to Oklahoma City, basically.

00:58:53.96
Jay Steagall
Yeah.

00:58:56.83
Buddy
yeah, well, it's, we'll be closer yeah for this class, but maybe within a couple hours, though.

00:58:58.08
Keith
And Yeah.

00:59:04.56
Keith
Yeah.

00:59:05.06
Jay Steagall
yeah so the online option would be would be really nice keith i i prefer to teach in person but but to your point you know it's it's tough to get a group for example to to agree to a travel time and and to dovetail into what buddy says you know as far as traveling and and doing some training there that's that's an option that we can explore depending on you know how many folks want to put a group together and and and have us come out and teach. And and really what would be ideal is, you know, either a one full day or two full days of nothing but radio communications and run through, you know, the entire curriculum and then have some online resources available for them if they need to re-explore the material that we covered in the classes before.

00:59:56.22
Jay Steagall
So that's an option there.

00:59:56.44
Buddy
Well, I could say if if people are on the Facebook group, if they want to instant message me, you know, on the private side, ah where their location is and they're interested in training, we could try to set something up.

01:00:12.02
Buddy
You know, it's nothing's, you know, impossible, but, you know, it's, it costs to travel, definitely costs and we got to be able to cover it.

01:00:20.85
Keith
Yeah. Individual training is going to be, is going to be expensive for the, uh,

01:00:24.01
Buddy
Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:24.83
Keith
the train the trainee, the trainee. Okay. Um, the classes are always better. I think anybody, uh, you know, that's, that's able to drive to, uh, your location would really benefit from the classes.

01:00:37.33
Keith
You know, no doubt about it.

01:00:37.67
Buddy
Yeah. And then, you know, you're you're pretty savvy with ah production in, so maybe we can work something out.

01:00:46.39
Keith
I do. I dabble, you know,

01:00:47.84
Buddy
Yeah. So there we go.

01:00:53.29
Keith
You know, I know it's it's probably not um is is' probably not really the the right way. Jump into this a little bit. You don't have to go into it too deep. But let's say we had a a a a total grid down. Let's say the United States had all three power grids go down.

01:01:12.14
Keith
Who knows what happened? Who cares what happened? They're down, done. Everything's done. Could be the whole world. Could just be our country. How do I, five and a half hours away from Buddy, how do I get in touch with him aside from getting in my vehicle and traveling five and a half hours?

01:01:27.26
Jay Steagall
Sure, and that can be a challenge in itself, right?

01:01:30.38
Keith
Yeah.

01:01:30.51
Jay Steagall
if the If the power's down, then my gas pumps don't work either.

01:01:33.99
Keith
That's right.

01:01:34.74
Jay Steagall
you know so Anyway, we can see where things can go south and do I really want to spend fuel traveling five and a half hours in a grid down situation even if I've got the fuel to get there because I might not be able to refuel once I'm there.

01:01:48.73
Jay Steagall
So, you know, here's here's something to consider.

01:01:48.77
Keith
Good point.

01:01:55.04
Jay Steagall
Preparing for an emergency doesn't mean preparing the day of. yeah we've Preparing means that I've got the kit and the education to run my gear when something goes bad. it's not It's not an if anymore. It's a when is it going to happen.

01:02:17.35
Jay Steagall
And I don't have time to prepare while the disaster is going on. So the thing that I need to have in place, one, is is the kit itself and the capability to use it. So I need to get educated as soon as I can on the equipment that I have. So I'm familiar with how to use it and I'm comfortable using it.

01:02:40.59
Jay Steagall
And then i've got I've got to explore options on, you know, how do I communicate with someone that's five and a half hours away, you know, drive time wise,

01:02:51.59
Jay Steagall
And, you know, just check on them. It could be a family member. i mean, you don't have to check in on buddy. He'll probably be all right. But, yeah.

01:02:57.95
Buddy
I hope so.

01:03:01.70
Jay Steagall
But to your point, you know, we probably want to check in on family members that are geographically separated.

01:03:08.83
Keith
And nowadays that's a, that's a big possibility.

01:03:08.93
Jay Steagall
So the things.

01:03:10.91
Keith
My, my children are in Austin, Texas. That's a lot more than five and a half hours.

01:03:16.49
Jay Steagall
Oh, man, get them out of there. Yeah. but

01:03:18.53
Buddy
ah Yeah. Run away.

01:03:21.02
Keith
They're, they're grown. They're going to what they're going to do. You know?

01:03:23.51
Jay Steagall
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the the thing that I would want to check on it as as a comms expert, what ah what I want to do is be able to plan for these comm out situations well in advance of it ever happening.

01:03:36.38
Jay Steagall
So what I might look at are, you know, are there ham repeater stations between Oklahoma City and somewhere in Missouri? And the answer is yes.

01:03:47.82
Jay Steagall
So i can I can spend a little bit of time doing some legwork and communicating with these ham radio operators and ask them some basic questions of, hey, you know, in the grid down situation, you know what are your preparation preparations? You know, are are you planning on firing up a generator and getting communications going again? And if you do that, you know, what what frequencies or frequency sets could we expect to find you on? And, you know, what's your pace plan look like?

01:04:16.28
Jay Steagall
you know, what and and really develop some relationships with those that have some of this equipment that we might not have. That's what I would do.

01:04:27.05
Jay Steagall
And now, you know, we can do all that legwork up front. We don't have to wait for something to go bad and try to figure it out. and That's worst case scenario, right?

01:04:38.53
Buddy
And i've I've done some consultations with some of our listeners and Jay, you have too. um

01:04:44.65
Jay Steagall
Yeah.

01:04:45.38
Buddy
With, you know, with the same question, how, you know, I've got somebody to, ah my daughter's two and a half hours away or whatever it may be. How do I talk to them? And, and we, we get that question all the time in classes, you know, they has, and that's why I want him to go into this expectation thing.

01:05:03.78
Buddy
But, you know, um one of the listeners in the conversation I've had with him lately, he was talking about, he he joined their local ham club. He's not a ham radio operator. He's it's on his list to do and a goal of his, but he's gone in and he's learned a lot about it. And yes, he's the, the same things you brought up, Jay was, you know, talk to him in the grid down situation because he has family multiple States away that he wants to, you know, still communicate with. So that's a great point.

01:05:36.70
Keith
Okay, so logistically wise, let's say the grid goes down and all of the repeaters, the the people who own them have fired them up, got the generators going between me and Buddy. How does that work?

01:05:49.45
Keith
Do I get on a radio and call a repeater and ask them to call another repeater and then another repeater? I mean, how does that work? How does it get, how does the signal get to Buddy?

01:05:59.06
Jay Steagall
Well, that's a question that's going to have to be answered in in that this in that same type of discussion vein with those ham station owners.

01:06:11.30
Jay Steagall
you know Without understanding how that ham repeater station is set up, it's really difficult to answer that question.

01:06:17.62
Keith
Oh, okay.

01:06:18.37
Jay Steagall
but But what you but you want to recognize here is

01:06:21.51
Keith
So what you're saying is it's not an automatic thing. Uh...

01:06:24.62
Jay Steagall
It's not an automatic thing, right? and And the other thing to think about here is ah you don't necessarily need a repeater to get from one side of the country to another to the other with a radio communication.

01:06:36.55
Jay Steagall
Everybody with a radio is essentially a relay station.

01:06:40.56
Buddy
And

01:06:40.77
Jay Steagall
You just need to know how to relay. Now, that's where a pace plane comes from.

01:06:43.64
Buddy
that's where that pace plan comes in. You know, you have calm, calm windows, things of that nature where, you know,

01:06:48.93
Jay Steagall
Exactly. So what what you might want to consider as part of that you know emergency communication piece is transmitting in the blind. Say, hey, this is, for example, hey, this is Keith. I'm in you know nowhere, Missouri, and I'm trying to reach a friend of mine in Oklahoma City by the name of Buddy.

01:07:12.55
Jay Steagall
Right? and And transmit that signal. And if somebody, I mean, hopefully what would happen here is that somebody between you and Oklahoma City would receive that message and retransmit it and then be able to come back.

01:07:28.01
Jay Steagall
So, you know, there's some understanding. I mean, there's some understanding that has to be had as a radio operator and how all that works. But it's it's a doable deal.

01:07:43.66
Keith
Yeah, until you get to the guy halfway between, it's like, okay, we can we can do that. um You're going to need to send me 30 days worth of storable food, some water filters, a whole box, ah a couple cases of.22 ammo, and maybe a little bit of.762, maybe a little bit of 9mm.

01:08:01.79
Keith
Throw in a handgun and we'll have that.

01:08:01.87
Jay Steagall
Sure, no problem.

01:08:03.41
Keith
Yeah.

01:08:03.91
Jay Steagall
Sure, no problem.

01:08:04.20
Keith
Right.

01:08:04.47
Jay Steagall
What address do I send that to?

01:08:06.86
Buddy
Yeah. yeah

01:08:09.08
Keith
ah right

01:08:13.28
Jay Steagall
Yeah, I'll be right over with that. Yeah.

01:08:16.53
Keith
It'll be in the middle of the night. I can you that much. Well, that's interesting. um Cause it, you know, I, I think that the, I, I can definitely tell you from my end of it, because I don't know anything about the radios, that sort of thing, but I can definitely tell you that the movies and the TV shows of the apocalyptic type, you know, post-apocalyptic type movies and that sort of thing, they got us thinking wrong.

01:08:44.24
Keith
Because on those shows, everybody talks to everybody. Everybody, yeah, oh yeah i got a cousin over in in you know Los Angeles. he's coming He's coming this way next week. Well, does that person even know that?

01:08:56.48
Keith
you know In a grid-down situation, you're not talking to people all the way across the country.

01:09:00.06
Buddy
Yeah, it's crazy.

01:09:00.23
Jay Steagall
Yeah, the only reason I know that.

01:09:00.53
Keith
it's i think I think they got us twisted as to how bad the situation would really be communication-wise.

01:09:03.71
Jay Steagall
Yeah.

01:09:08.49
Keith
you know, on these TV shows and movies and things that we watch. It's our only understanding of a grid down situation is what we see.

01:09:14.78
Jay Steagall
Oh, no, you're 100% right. you know when When Buddy and I can roll up on a

01:09:21.50
Jay Steagall
roll up into an emergency disaster talk and ask them what their com plan is and they look at us, like we screw another head out of our shoulders. Um, and these are supposed to be folks that know what they're doing.

01:09:35.36
Keith
Yeah.

01:09:36.01
Jay Steagall
Then we know that the rest of the general public is probably even further behind on understanding, you know, and it's, it's not, i'm i'm not blaming them for that.

01:09:40.16
Keith
lost.

01:09:45.65
Jay Steagall
This is not normal day, you know, everyday operations, uh, needs. Uh, this is, you know,

01:09:52.14
Buddy
People don't know what they don't know.

01:09:53.76
Jay Steagall
Right. This is for emergency use. And not only hopefully I'm not having to deal with an emergency every day where the comms are out. So, but, you know, it's a it's an acquired skill set and it requires some training.

01:10:06.73
Jay Steagall
requires, you know staying on top of it. I've got to study it. I've got to stay on top of it and come back and take it.

01:10:13.27
Keith
on On a more local um note, um question, um we talked about distance before and you were saying about, you know, everything matters, buildings and line of sight and trees and mountains and if you're on a you know If you're on the flats of Kansas, you know how far can it go? That kind of thing. You know you see a lot in movies, like we were just mentioning second ago, movies and and TV shows and stuff. You'll see people military people and other people talking to other people like up in the mountains and stuff. What are they using? Or let me ask you this. Is that realistic in the military? Are you able to go into, let's say, ah five to ten mile...

01:10:50.23
Keith
ah you know ah battle zone or whatever you want to call it and talk to people through radios, even when there's hills and mountains and buildings and all that sort of thing. How are those radios getting through all that?

01:11:02.17
Jay Steagall
Yeah. So, you know, without jumping off into details as far as what kind of military equipment we have, let's sum it up with this. Our military operators that are performing missions in those mountainous areas oftentimes have what we call a B-LOS communication system, a beyond line of sight communications capabilities.

01:11:24.72
Jay Steagall
So the signals may be lower lower band HF that bouncing off of the ionosphere, like a Nivis type setup, or that might be a part of a mesh network where I'm, I'm bouncing communications off of an air asset to get over the mountains.

01:11:44.92
Jay Steagall
You know, I may be using, a radio that's connected to a box that's just in the back of an airplane. In the KC-135, we had a box that was in the back of back of the bird on some of our missions, and its only purpose was to serve as an airborne relay station.

01:11:59.98
Jay Steagall
And we didn't have anything to do with it other than turning it on. But that provided that beyond line of sight communications capabilities for our guys on the ground, to talk to each other as well as providing that communications link between the guys on the ground and other assets, other air assets that may be out beyond line of sight.

01:12:20.91
Jay Steagall
So this here again, we're talking about the use of a repeater or repeater capable type communications that allow that that signal to get from one device to another or bounce off the the ionosphere or something like that. But yes, absolutely. there's the There's the ability even for civilians to utilize, if they're creative,

01:12:43.56
Jay Steagall
and in and implement a BLOS type communication system to get over get over and around those types of obstacles.

01:12:51.57
Buddy
Yeah. And keep in mind all the technology we see today, it was once, you know, top secret stuff in the, in the military. So, uh, that Rattlegram thing was out there before, you know, out there being tested before. So, um, I, I dabbled with something similar, you know, 20, 30 years ago. So, you know, it's still, it's, uh,

01:13:19.60
Buddy
A lot of technology, the cell phone, all that stuff was military had it years and years and years ago, and then they released it to the public. So, you know, you can still you can get some of the military grade technology, but you're going to pay for it.

01:13:34.12
Buddy
It is very expensive, but it's out there.

01:13:35.66
Keith
I was just thinking the same thing when he was talking about that. Yeah. All right. So, Jay, final thoughts?

01:13:42.40
Jay Steagall
get a radio, learn how to use it, uh, get with somebody like us to help you develop a ah ah good pace plan, or at least understand how to put one together, uh, and start practicing, join a local radio club or, or an online like Facebook, social media type, uh, radio club, ask questions. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

01:14:05.91
Jay Steagall
And, uh, You know, it doesn't take everybody in the household to become a radio expert to have a household that's proficient in radio communications. So don't don't don't let that scare you off.

01:14:20.74
Jay Steagall
You know, go go get the equipment, go get the training on how to utilize It'll be money well spent and you'll have a nice piece of kit and some training that could save your life, your family's lives, or maybe your neighborhoods.

01:14:36.12
Keith
Yeah, you know, ah ignorance is bliss because i have always been so comfortable knowing that ah should the grid go down, all I need to do is buy a couple of radios and I can talk to everybody everywhere. And listening to you guys talk, that ain't that ain't the way it goes.

01:14:51.94
Keith
So ah I prefer just to feel like I'm still in good standing, but I guess I'm not.

01:14:57.65
Buddy
Yeah, we didn't want to crush, we don't want to crush everybody, but you know, yeah, you bet it's, it's best to learn these lessons now, you know, uh, when it doesn't matter.

01:14:58.19
Keith
yeah Yeah, correct crushed you crush my dreams, man.

01:15:05.86
Keith
That's true.

01:15:09.14
Buddy
And, you know, I've always said it, you know, i I say it all the time, I guess, you know, go out there and train, get, get the stuff and go train with it, you know, cause if you don't, like Jay said earlier, you're,

01:15:20.48
Buddy
You've got that piece of kit and you've got, ah ah you know, it's that rucksack, that million pound rucksack that, you know, you packed a lot of stuff in it and repacked it and put more shit in it.

01:15:31.21
Buddy
And then you go throw it on your back and, you know, when you really need to and it just crushes you. So, you know, go out there and train.

01:15:37.90
Keith
Give me the firestar and the knife and my pew pew and we're ready to go.

01:15:41.07
Buddy
Yeah, there you go. You don't need 80 million ways to start a fire. I mean, come on.

01:15:47.53
Keith
ah Jay, how how do people get in touch with you? What's your company and all that?

01:15:52.77
Jay Steagall
So I've got Cloverleaf Precision here in Yukon, Oklahoma. that's a That's our primary business. And you can find us on Facebook or find us online at cloverleafprecision.com.

01:16:08.44
Jay Steagall
And then the other entity that we're pushing is is our nonprofit called Scout 46. And you can find us on Facebook and reach out to us through Messenger that way as well.

01:16:20.13
Jay Steagall
and ah And there'll be more to come on on Scout 46. I hope we can we can all get together for another show the not-too-distant future about about what this is.

01:16:34.04
Jay Steagall
this NGO nonprofit is going to do a really, really cool deal. It might be something of great interest to your listeners.

01:16:39.86
Keith
Yeah, that sounds great.

01:16:40.72
Buddy
it's It's very exciting.

01:16:40.97
Keith
All

01:16:42.04
Buddy
it's It's exciting shit. So, yeah, definitely need to do that.