TOPS Bunker: The Original Prepper Survivalist Podcast

215 Fight Back - Self-Defense Survival with Instructor Ron Flowers

• Keith Otworth & Rhonda Triggs • Season 8 • Episode 215

Share episode

Text Our Show Hosts

Please Help Us - Support TOPS Bunker as Low as 3$ mo. Click Here...!!!

I want to thank y’all for joining us… We’ve got a great show for ya…

Self Defense… Have ya ever thought about it? And I mean, really dug deep and thought about it. Have ya ever wondered what you would do if you were faced with a physical threat? A mugging… a robbery… an abduction? If you or a loved one were involved in a life-threatening attack or assault, would you know what to do? I know… in our heads, we’re all bad asses - running across rooftops and superman flying through windows guns drawn, ready to rock like Trinity in the opening scene of the first Matrix film. Yeah? Well, me too. In my daydreams, I’m capable of disarming a man like Jacky Chan, then dropping him with two to the chest and one to the head like John Wick. I even got the wrist flick mag drop and lightning fast reload down to an art. I mean, I’d have no choice, with having six of his buddies to take out in quick succession.

But the truth is, most of us would not do well if our lives depended on it. Would we even, or should I say could we even remember the basics of survival in a time of pure panic and fear? 

Well tonight, we’re speaking with self-defense trainer Ron Flowers, about preparing yourself for threats, situational awareness, and some of his tools of, his trade. Listen close and take notes. Your life may some day depend on knowing a few things about self-defense.

Citizens Defense Training

Police Defensive Firearms Training

Support the show

Preppers… Survivalists… Off-Gridders… Homesteaders… and the like… 

Welcome… to TOPS Bunker…

A Podcast for Preppers

Our Email is… SHTF@Topsbunker.com

Our Web Site is… TOPSBunker.com

Don’t forget to check the Show Notes, in your Podcast Player, for a link to help support the show, valuable products and gear, and extra info on this episode.

I want to thank y’all for joining us…

We’ve got a great show for ya…

…Self Defense… Have ya ever thought about it? And I mean, really dug deep and thought about it. Have ya ever wondered what you would do if you were faced with a physical threat? A mugging… a robbery… an abduction? If you or a loved one were involved in a life-threatening attack or assault, would you know what to do? I know… I know… in our heads, we’re all bad asses… running across rooftops and superman flying through windows guns drawn, ready to rock like Trinity in the opening scene of the first Matrix film. Yeah? Well, me too. In my daydreams, I’m capable of disarming a man like Jacky Chan, then dropping him with two to the chest and one to the head like John Wick. I even got the wrist flick mag drop and lightning fast reload down to an art. I mean, I’d have no choice, with having six of his buddies to take out in quick succession.

But the truth is, most of us would not do well if our lives depended on it. Would we even… or should I say could we, even remember the basics of survival in a time of pure panic and fear? 

Well tonight, we’re speaking with self-defense trainer Ron Flowers, about preparing yourself for threats, situational awareness, and some of his tools of, his trade. Listen close and take notes. Your life may some day depend on knowing a few things about self-defense.

So, Let’s get to it…


Buddy
Yeah. Call me buddy. So, and then you get bonus points if you carry a fanny pack.

00:01:54.39
Ron
Okay. mind

00:01:58.61
Buddy
So

00:01:59.16
Ron
I do not, but I did back in the day, back the day.

00:02:02.37
Buddy
Okay, well, we'll bring that up. You'll get half a bonus point, but that's that's a that's a sign of contention.

00:02:05.91
Ron
ah proper

00:02:07.97
Buddy
But it's kind of it's kind of our joke out there and in the podcast world now. of People are like, you're so gay.

00:02:14.03
topsbunker
my guess is My guess is Ron does not carry it because, like me, he feels that it's a little bit effeminate to carry a...

00:02:21.07
Buddy
come on.

00:02:21.07
Ron
It is. But I did go through that phase.

00:02:22.33
topsbunker
See?

00:02:24.08
Ron
And here's the thing I'll tell you, because I think I'm a little bit north of both of you, and that everything old becomes new again.

00:02:31.24
topsbunker
It's true. It's true.

00:02:32.39
Buddy
Yeah.

00:02:32.49
Ron
Like bell-bottom jeans and aviator Ray-Bans.

00:02:32.59
Buddy
yeah

00:02:35.82
topsbunker
Oh, no. No, no, we're not going to go to Bell Bottoms. That's not happening.

00:02:38.22
Ron
ah

00:02:39.22
Buddy
Well, yeah, i'm I'm not, I'm not into the Laney Wilson look, but, uh, I definitely, I'm definitely actually looking at gov X for a pair of rebands.

00:02:42.95
Ron
It's coming back, man. I'm telling you. Well,

00:02:47.79
Buddy
So maybe eight or so.

00:02:48.27
Ron
there you go. All

00:02:49.52
Buddy
Yeah.

00:02:52.10
Buddy
Nice purchase.

00:02:53.92
Ron
right. So do you want to do?

00:02:54.75
Buddy
Let's get this thing kicked off. All right. Uh, you ready, Keith?

00:02:58.85
topsbunker
Yeah, go for it.

00:02:59.47
Buddy
All right. Well, so tonight we're going to talk about and continue on in our situational awareness series that we have going. And we have Ron Flowers from ah Central PA, and he's going to talk a little bit of about his, you know, he's a subject matter expert in situational awareness and firearms and instruction. So he's going to talk bit about himself, give us a little background, and we're going to have a great episode.

00:03:24.47
Buddy
So, Ron, go ahead and introduce yourself.

00:03:27.09
Ron
Sure. ah Name is Ron Flowers. In terms of background, there's a whole lot of formers or retired in the description.

00:03:33.54
Buddy
Thank you.

00:03:35.21
Ron
i yeah My first adult career when i when I came out of Virginia, I grew up in Virginia. First adult career was in the U.S. s Merchant Marine, which I described as a seagoing truck driver.

00:03:46.62
Ron
So I traveled all over the world on American flag merchant marine ships eight years as a crew member, about eight years, and then 10 years as ship's officer.

00:03:53.62
topsbunker
Thank you.

00:03:57.48
Ron
on American flag liquid natural gas carriers, which is a cryogenic cargo. It's natural gas that's frozen down to about minus 260 degrees Fahrenheit, minus 160 centigrade and liquefied and reduced in volume 625 times. So it's a lot of natural gas in a cryogenic state. And we we loaded it down in Indonesia, either in Borneo and Sumatra, and we discharged it in four different ports in Japan. And I did that for 10 years.

00:04:29.64
Ron
I walked away from that back in the early nineties and, and took up about a 65% pay cut to become a police officer. um And that was back in, in, in the early nineties. I started out at 26 grand a year, walking away from 75 grand a year where only worked six months, essentially six months on or six months or four months on four months off total of six months per year.

00:04:55.84
Ron
So i started the police career in the early 90s in the city of Allentown, Pennsylvania, which is a busy little city, about two hours west of New York. A lot of our problems came from New York. This was back when ah Rudy Giuliani and Bratton we' were running the show in the city, and they did a great job of flushing all the criminal element or a significant number of the criminal elements west into New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

00:05:26.29
Buddy
Like a bunch of cockroaches. yeah

00:05:28.12
Ron
Oh my gosh, it was amazing. um we were and And it also happened to be when the gangs that were prevalent on the West Coast were cloned and grew up in Chicago and New York City, Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, 2ND, a lot of gangs.

00:05:48.80
Ron
And they migrated out of those out of out of New York, particularly West into Jersey and Pennsylvania what via what they call the Route 222 corridor and they came through Allentown. They went into Reading.

00:06:01.20
Ron
ah Lancaster, which is real close to where I live now, was known as the motherland of the Pennsylvania Latin Kings. That was where the Latin Kings took root in in our state and they battled each other. They battled the New York Latin Kings, battled the Chicago-based Latin Kings.

00:06:19.66
Ron
And then, of course, you throw in the Bloods and the Crips and the local gangs and some of the others. So that I did that for a while. I worked in patrol, after a few years, uh, uh, I got sick for a while and came back from that sickness and came back from ah a cancer diagnosis. I'm i'm doing well.

00:06:37.95
Ron
And I ended up in narcotics as an undercover. later on, I got promoted to Sergeant and they moved me back over into patrol. I worked on the street for a while. I worked in detectives as a Sergeant.

00:06:50.94
Ron
All of our detectives were Sergeants at that time. And, um, Then I got, I went back to narcotics as a team sergeant where I ran a team of guys and got picked up by the DEA for a couple of years.

00:07:05.92
Ron
Got picked up later on by the FBI for a couple of years, meaning I was deputized by those federal agencies. So I had a city badge and a federal badge and I could enforce both federal and state and local law.

00:07:19.50
Ron
What else? um I got promoted to lieutenant. They removed half my brain. and they moved me out into training. And I took over as the commanding officer of the Allentown Police Academy, which is, we had a regional responsibility, not just our guys, a regional responsibility.

00:07:37.69
Ron
And I did that up until I retired and did my first deployment to Afghanistan where I met Buddy.

00:07:44.93
Buddy
Yes, we did.

00:07:47.28
Ron
Yeah.

00:07:47.46
topsbunker
What do you mean by removed half my brain?

00:07:47.50
Buddy
we We choose.

00:07:49.42
topsbunker
what kind Was that a joke?

00:07:51.18
Ron
Yeah, that was a joke.

00:07:52.99
topsbunker
Okay, I'm like, what? Did I miss something here?

00:07:56.08
Ron
Yeah, if I made captain, they would remove both halves or assistant chief for sure. They would remove both halves. And that's a joke. um I bust on command staff all the time. ah God bless them. There's some good, good people up there. they've They've got a lot of a lot of competition for their time and attention.

00:08:13.45
Ron
But us rank and file type cops, you know, we we just tease them quite a bit.

00:08:18.30
Buddy
same Same thing in the military. We, you know, when officers, we say that when they get, they go to the officer schools that they, that's their first start of their lobotomy.

00:08:26.37
topsbunker
more

00:08:27.08
Buddy
And then every, every, as they progress, they lose more of their brain. So it's just a running joke.

00:08:32.29
Ron
Well, to to back you up, yeah exactly, to back you up on that, when I was in the Merchant Marine as an officer, I was commissioned, directly commissioned United States Navy Reserve.

00:08:32.87
topsbunker
ah

00:08:43.23
Ron
So I served several years in the reserves also, started out as a butter bar. And when I got into police work and was no longer doing Navy-related work in the Merchant Marine,

00:08:54.21
Ron
I resigned my commission as a lieutenant commander in 04. So half my brain was gone anyway.

00:08:58.90
Buddy
Wow.

00:09:02.08
Buddy
They got the other half. Okay, great.

00:09:03.68
Ron
Yeah.

00:09:06.41
Buddy
All right.

00:09:06.63
topsbunker
Well, I wasn't around in the Giuliani days. I know Giuliani was, was awesome. Uh, I, I grew up in, uh, did half my growing up in Burton County, New Jersey, which is just over the, uh, the George Washington bridge from New York city.

00:09:20.87
Ron
Yep, I know it.

00:09:21.33
topsbunker
Um, you know, I'm sure you do lots of people do.

00:09:22.03
Ron
I know it well.

00:09:24.23
topsbunker
Um, and it's, uh, you know, it's basically just, ah if you want to, it's basically the suburbs of New York city. If you want to think about it that way, I mean, it kind of is.

00:09:30.93
Ron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:09:32.62
topsbunker
But yeah, that was a lot of crime, man, before I moved out of that area. New York was a bad shape before Giuliana got there.

00:09:39.59
Ron
He did a great, he did a great job. i actually handled a ah criminal investigation, a minor one for his stepson and his aides sent me an autographed book. Giuliani wrote a book a number of years ago. i can't remember the name of it.

00:09:54.87
Ron
It's in my library somewhere, a signed copy. ah for for doing doing something for his stepson who was ah in college in Allentown. And I can't remember what the offense was, but I helped him out with something. He wasn't charged with anything. It was it was an investigation, a minor investigation.

00:10:10.76
Buddy
Oh, wow. That's interesting.

00:10:13.66
Ron
Yeah, small enough.

00:10:13.88
topsbunker
Yeah, well, I was looking at your ah website a little bit, the ah police defense firearms training website.

00:10:20.62
Ron
Yeah, that's one of them. The other one is citizens defensive ah Citizens Defense Training, CDT, and that's the civilian company. And then PDFT, Police Defensive Firearms Training, is the law enforcement security.

00:10:34.84
Ron
And in some venues, if the venue lets me, if the host allows it, I have switched on civilians that attend the LE classes as well.

00:10:44.60
topsbunker
Oh, wow. I would imagine there's a big difference between training police and training civilians.

00:10:50.57
Ron
Yes and no. um Yes, at the introductory level, because police have a a foundation that they get in the academy. i think it's up to about 100 hours now if you include rifle training.

00:11:02.18
Ron
So they have a foundation that most civilians don't have at the introductory and level two classes. However, it has been my experience that there are some, at least in this state, there are some really, really switched on civilian shooters that are into it and they're spending their own money their own time, buying buying their own equipment and their own ammunition.

00:11:24.34
Ron
And they go to some really high quality training, train with some of the people that I've trained with. And they're really, really good. So that's what I mean about switched on civilians coming to LE classes. You don't have to worry about their safety.

00:11:36.69
Ron
You don't have to remind them to keep the finger off the trigger or on a rifle to keep the safety on. They already know all that. All I can do it with those people and and the LE classes is I make them better.

00:11:49.65
Ron
with a deep dive into the fundamentals, because there is no such thing as advanced shooting. That's a myth. It's basics mastered. And that's where i that's where I focus on, is making them better with the fundamentals that they already have and taking them a deeper dive into those fundamentals that they never got in the academy.

00:12:08.67
topsbunker
that's ah That's great. I never heard that before. Basics mastered. That's great.

00:12:12.44
Ron
Well, I didn't invent it. That comes out of my mentors that come out of the unit, and I know who you know who they are.

00:12:19.66
Buddy
Oh, yeah.

00:12:21.10
topsbunker
Buddy, you awake?

00:12:22.15
Buddy
Yeah, I'm awake. I'm awake. I'm just taking it all in. Just like normal, I take it all in.

00:12:26.18
topsbunker
I got you.

00:12:26.39
Buddy
I'm awake.

00:12:26.51
Ron
I don't

00:12:26.70
topsbunker
I got you.

00:12:27.68
Buddy
yeah Yeah, I can second what he was saying about law enforcement. You'd be surprised at the law enforcement training. And i've I've done a little bit of training for law enforcement and gone through some law enforcement training myself.

00:12:42.93
Buddy
And you'd be surprised at, you know, different, the different levels of training and different departments, you know, take it more serious than others. And, you know, a lot of, a lot of the guys who, uh, my law enforcement friends, they go out on their own to get additional, cause they have a,

00:12:59.49
Buddy
They have a baseline standard, like the military. you go out and you qualify once a year and stuff. But these guys, you know like you said, the switched in guys, will go out and on their own and go take these shooting schools. They'll go to some of the you know former SEALs or operators or CAG guys and go out and get you know the the more high-speed training that ah you know hopefully will keep them alive.

00:13:24.50
Ron
Well, that's an important point because in law enforcement, it runs a gamut. You've got guys that really wish they weren't issued a gun and they would show up at qualifications annually and have to blow the dust bunnies out of the barrel or they would show up, it would be a cold qualification and they would go to exercise the first stage and not have a round in the chamber and not have known it for a year.

00:13:50.37
Buddy
Yeah.

00:13:51.07
Ron
Now, that's the worst case. You've got other guys that don't go on to training of their own. They they are of the opinion that if they're if the department thinks it's important, the department would send them, which goes back to my joking about command staff. They've got a lot of competition for their attention, their time, and their limited money.

00:14:08.72
Ron
And training is usually one of the first things that gets cut because they're they're throwing the dice that they're never going to have a situation. It's going to cost them a gazillion dollars in the reputation of the municipality and the department.

00:14:21.72
Ron
and every man and woman in it. And those are the cases that that make it all the way up to the Supreme Court. And they now govern our lives as law enforcement officers. They they tell us what we can and cannot do.

00:14:33.11
Buddy
So let's switch gears a little bit. you're if i would If we would have you read your resume or I would read it, especially if I read it take like two hours, but, uh, cause I can't read that well, but anyhow, but going in and, uh, if, if we go through your resume, you know, three, four pages of it, the places you've trained, I mean, I could, I can just, you know, spitball it and say, you've, you've had some of the best training I've ever seen, ah out there with people. I mean, you've been to the tier one, uh, schools and some of the best trainers out there.

00:15:05.35
Buddy
So, uh, having said that, what, As you train people and, or if I was out there and I was a a new shooter and I wanted to learn how to, uh, you know, shoot and I'm out there shopping around, like I would be shopping a doctor or shopping, you know, a real estate agent or something.

00:15:23.26
Buddy
What does somebody look for in a firearms instructor?

00:15:28.43
Ron
Honesty, and which you don't have any measure to judge if you're new at that. But if you're looking for an honest vibe, you're looking for somebody who's honest about what they have and have not done, if they don't put it out there or they won't tell you if if you make an inquiry, that's a red flag.

00:15:50.18
Ron
If they make a lot of claims about all these tactics that they know, but they don't have the requisite background, that's a red flag also. It's just hard to say. I mean, there's a lot of people out there that that they go to and I don't want to down I don't want to run down any particular organization, but for instance, if you go to an NRA basic pistol instructor school, that's two days butts in the seat with a guy who really doesn't know a whole lot anyway, but that they're not designed for that. They're designed for the introductory shooter. This is the book, the end the bullet comes from, this is the trigger. This is the hammer, that kind of a thing.

00:16:27.09
Ron
And if you go in expecting that level of instruction, you won't be disappointed. But if you're trying to learn how to defend yourself and, or your family, you need somebody with more background. And in my opinion, it has to be somebody with a background in law enforcement or military or who has been heavily exposed to those sources.

00:16:49.12
Ron
i've got I've got a local friend here who's a good firearms instructor, a young guy in his 30s. He's never been a cop. He's never been security. He's never been military, but he's been exposed to those people, but he doesn't pretend

00:17:00.85
Buddy
Thank you.

00:17:01.11
Ron
to be anything other than what he is. And that's someone who's received training from some really good people. And he regurgitates that with his own flair and he's passionate about it. So I would, I would send somebody to a guy like that. He's honest about it

00:17:13.30
Buddy
Well, and that's a great point because, ah you know, a lot of people think, oh, I got to get firearms instruction from somebody who's been in the military or somebody who's been law enforcement and ah and using your term to switch down guys. There's a lot of, I've seen a lot of ah instructors out there that were civilians, never been, had any of that experience that are, they know the fundamentals and they know the basics real well and they can teach them.

00:17:40.63
Buddy
You know, it's it's it's something that it's, it's overlooked. you You know, you can't just look at somebody's resume and just because they were a Navy SEAL, it means they're a great instructor. So,

00:17:50.75
topsbunker
For me, many years ago, ah ah back in tech, when was living in Texas, um I, you know, when I first started shooting, um I went to a gun range. I checked a whole bunch of them, checked reviews, this and that. the one that I found, I believe it's i believe it's called Eagle Gun Range. Just ah just a nice you know ah neighborhood gun range.

00:18:09.34
topsbunker
Really nice, clean interior, good people working there. ah like Like you said, Ron, ah the vibe was good. um i could feel that the people in there, they cared about what they were you know teaching and selling and and and and your experience there for sure.

00:18:24.08
topsbunker
like I, like one of the guys behind the counter when, when somebody was checking out was like, Hey, remember to go wash your hands, you know, the stuff like that. It's like good people, you know, and, and I felt it was pretty good.

00:18:31.22
Ron
Right, right. right

00:18:34.77
topsbunker
Now that was back in the day when you had to have a license to carry in Texas. So I went ahead and took the CDL course and thought the instructors was, was so good. I learned so much just from that one course.

00:18:46.17
topsbunker
And then, you know, of course got the, got the license, um, that I went ahead and took pistol one pistol two and, rifle as well. And, you know, pistol one was kind of like more like the, the safety part of it and all that, and and all about the gun and how do you stand and that kind of thing. And then pistol two went into some more in-depth stuff, but that was my experience in finding instructors. I, I just happened to find a really good gun range with really good people that cared about your, your experience and your, you know, all that.

00:19:14.14
Ron
Well, you you've brought up an important point, and that would have been on my my subsequent list of things to look for. Unfortunately, finding that might require that you you suck on a lemon one or two times before you find somebody that is humble, passionate, honest, and and you can sense that they really, really care about communicating the important points to you because communication is key.

00:19:37.96
Ron
You said it. you You could be the most high-speed operator in the world, but if you can't convey that experience in ways that people that don't have that experience understand what you're trying to give them in terms of ability to defend themselves or their community.

00:19:51.95
Ron
um it's It's wasted. it's It's a wasted attempt. It's not to say that their instruction is totally wasted. It's just, you're not going to get it.

00:20:00.48
topsbunker
Yeah, and you also might be soured on on it too.

00:20:00.52
Ron
felt Yeah.

00:20:03.04
topsbunker
it And for new new shooters, like just civilian shooters, that that could that could be devastating.

00:20:03.65
Ron
could,

00:20:08.91
topsbunker
like That could turn you away from from guns.

00:20:11.83
Ron
it could. ah could And then the teaching civilians versus teaching cops, I already talked about the baseline that cops had, that most civilians had. But and when I teach civilians, I also run women's classes. And what an eye opener that has been for me.

00:20:26.49
Ron
um i don't I don't know if you guys know this or not, but men and women don't communicate the same way. but It might come as shock.

00:20:32.87
topsbunker
Ha ha ha ha

00:20:34.33
Buddy
no No, that's a that's that's false. but

00:20:36.89
Ron
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:38.66
Buddy
Total myth. Total myth.

00:20:40.20
Ron
yeah um But I was blessed to have ah my my wife help me with that because I taught her to shoot when we were dating, you know, still trying to impress each other. i would not try to train my wife, but I did train her when we were boyfriend, girlfriend, and she got pretty good and started going to some of the same classes as me.

00:20:59.76
Ron
And so when I started teaching women's only classes, she was very, very helpful in helping me speak female. So it was those classes have been very, very successful.

00:21:10.32
topsbunker
and That's good. That's good. And I taught my wife how to shoot and she shoots.

00:21:11.99
Ron
oh

00:21:14.49
topsbunker
I'm not going to lie about She shoots better than I do. And that's, you know, I'm not that great of a shooter, but she's really good.

00:21:20.78
Ron
Well, I have the same phenomena. Now, my wife is not as fast. She's not as aggressive. She's not going to you know win the gunfight that i i I pray that I would win. But if you give her a slow fire and ah and a B8 bullseye at 25 yards, she's shooting high 90s all day.

00:21:38.00
Ron
all day

00:21:38.97
topsbunker
Yeah, right, right. what the Women can do that for some reason. I don't know if men's egos get in the way, maybe.

00:21:42.25
Ron
because absolutely

00:21:43.95
topsbunker
I don't know.

00:21:44.57
Buddy
You know, ah I found out that through training in the military, I was i trained i was a trainer on a lot of different weapon systems. I found out that females, and this is from early, from the get-go, females will listen.

00:22:00.26
Buddy
They'll take that instruction. You can give them the basics and they will apply they't apply them. and And just their attention, it's something they haven't either seen or they actually want to learn because they're kind of in the man's world in the military.

00:22:14.41
Buddy
and I'm kind of, I don't know.

00:22:17.39
topsbunker
That is true, yeah.

00:22:18.90
Buddy
So they, they want to perform and lot of guys, man, every every guy I knew in like in basic training or whatever, they, they had at least shot their grandfather's shotgun or they, you know, they've been around weapons where they had or not, and they just wouldn't listen, but females are humble and the best students I've ever had,

00:22:37.88
Buddy
you know, an instruction have been the female. So that's.

00:22:41.19
Ron
Well, you and I grew up running around the woods with sticks and pretended they were guns playing combat from the old Vic Morrow TV show, which you probably never seen.

00:22:48.10
topsbunker
That's right.

00:22:49.06
Buddy
oh Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:50.18
Ron
it well And so we come with preconceptions and we think we know it already. And so the instructors have to overcome what we think we know. But so you're spot on. They come as a blank slate when it comes to shooting in most cases, and they take it and run with it.

00:23:05.48
Buddy
Yeah, I think coming in coming into a ah training situation humble as a male would be your best bet. I mean, you're going out and you're you're spending the money anyhow. And if you can, you know, not go in and try to impress the instructor, which I see all of the time, then go in humble.

00:23:20.93
Ron
Yeah.

00:23:23.02
Buddy
And I think you'll learn a lot more.

00:23:24.65
topsbunker
You have plenty of yeah plenty of time later to be cool.

00:23:24.70
Buddy
You got to learn. Yeah.

00:23:28.91
Buddy
Yeah.

00:23:29.02
Ron
yeah

00:23:31.11
Buddy
Yeah, true.

00:23:31.37
Ron
Yeah, well, I've tried that for years and I fail at it, so that's all right. and

00:23:36.61
Buddy
And something I've noticed as well is, you know, all everybody in, it even in the prepper world, uh, firearms world, you know, just we're, we're, we try to impress everybody, even with our trucks and stuff, we have, we buy things, you know, we don't know how these things work and you know you have a, and I have a, a combat belt and, uh, it, it's brand new. I've had it on like twice. I got it all set up. It looks really cool.

00:24:03.70
Buddy
Uh, but I just don't use it and I don't train with it. So it's, it's something I should put on a marketplace or something to sell because I just don't use it. You know, I still go back and use the old stuff that I use when I was in the military and stuff that works. So just because you have the things, you know, you, you have the things go train with them, I guess what I'm trying to say.

00:24:25.52
Ron
Well, a lot of people have heard me say it and i Buddy, I believe you may have heard me say it. I'm ah i'm a self-confessed gear queer. I have bought it all, tried it all, and thrown it in a closet.

00:24:32.05
Buddy
Oh yeah. Yeah.

00:24:36.29
Ron
So I've kind of settled down on a few things now. But, yeah, I've i've i've bought a lot of gear that i to include the fanny pack back in the day and Thunderwear. You ever heard of Thunderwear?

00:24:47.83
Buddy
Uh, yes.

00:24:48.33
topsbunker
No, but no, but I want it.

00:24:48.48
Buddy
Yes.

00:24:49.60
Ron
heard that too.

00:24:50.12
topsbunker
What is it?

00:24:51.99
Ron
it's it's It's something like underwear that's worn over the underwear down in front of the package that where the gun is carried before the advent of appendix carry.

00:25:03.40
Buddy
Yeah. It's like the the precursor for the belly bands and stuff.

00:25:04.62
topsbunker
Wow.

00:25:06.95
Ron
Yeah, it well, obviously it rode lower than the belly band.

00:25:07.15
topsbunker
do

00:25:10.01
Buddy
Oh yeah. Yeah. But I think, yeah.

00:25:11.04
Ron
Yeah.

00:25:12.82
Buddy
Um,

00:25:13.05
topsbunker
Do not do not carry that way with one of the chamber, man. I'm just saying.

00:25:16.61
Ron
like oh Yeah, yeah, you did.

00:25:18.83
Buddy
Yeah, I never had one.

00:25:20.36
Ron
just

00:25:21.17
Buddy
i It's too risky for me. I guess I don't trust myself enough. But you the fanny pack, I trust totally with the fanny pack. And you you get cold points for the fanny pack.

00:25:29.25
Ron
Well, yeah, yeah.

00:25:32.44
Buddy
So...

00:25:32.84
Ron
That was a long time ago. and But the only thing with fanny packs, because my dad had one, may he rest in peace, you got be you can't carry anything else in that pouch. You get anything in that trigger guard, like your key ring or something like that, you get that in that trigger guard and it's flopping around in that fanny pack, unless the fanny pack has a dedicated, nothing else goes in it, holster that covers the trigger guard, which is the same advice I give women if they choose to purse carry.

00:25:59.73
Ron
You can't just throw it in a purse. You can't just throw it in a fanny pack. It's got to have a dedicated compartment that nothing else can sneak into the trigger guard. No way, no how.

00:26:10.48
Buddy
So, yeah, I got the 511.

00:26:11.50
topsbunker
my My first.

00:26:12.68
Buddy
Yeah, go ahead.

00:26:12.85
topsbunker
but Go ahead.

00:26:13.81
Buddy
I just got that 511 Fanny Pack and and you can't get a lot of stuff in there on purpose.

00:26:13.90
topsbunker
No, it's all yours. but

00:26:19.27
Ron
Okay.

00:26:20.27
Buddy
And so I do have a light in there with it, but it's compartmentalized where the light kind of stays separate. But there's a lot of things, you know, I've seen I've tried other.

00:26:26.41
Ron
Yeah.

00:26:31.40
Buddy
fanny packs and stuff and you're right man it's it it's like a purse the more the the bigger it is the more you stuff you throw in there and it should be dedicated at least that compartment to the firearm so

00:26:42.56
Ron
Yep. Absolutely.

00:26:43.43
topsbunker
but My first sling pack had a yeah ah dedicated area for for your firearm, and it also had a – it wasn't really a holster. You know what it was? it was more like a pocket carry holster you know where it's just ah it's just a wrap with a Velcro.

00:26:56.49
Ron
Yep.

00:26:58.68
topsbunker
or you know The pocket carry ones have like a more of a like a rubbery, stickery sticky kind of a feeling, so they'll stay in the pocket when you when you pull the weapon out. It had that and I really liked it, but then I went to switch to another sling pack. It didn't have that.

00:27:11.91
topsbunker
So I actually use a pocket holster for my gun in the fanny pack. This way I'm, I'm guaranteed that nothing's going to touch that trigger. It, nothing else goes near the gun in that pouch and my hand can't pull the trigger.

00:27:26.09
Ron
Right, right. Yeah, that's that's critical. I don't encourage um that kind of pocket holster or collapsible inside the waistband holster for any classes at the introductory or civilian level because reholstering requires you to kind of hold it open with your non-shooting hand and and there's the danger of you covering your non-shooting hand accidentally with a loaded gun, which is a no-go.

00:27:49.62
Ron
But for for for a civilian using it self-defense situation, there's nothing wrong with because you're not in a hurry to put the gun away in it anyway.

00:27:57.25
topsbunker
Now, wholeing holstering in the situation the way that I carry is ah is a not is it but is ah a true ah a catastrophe. I mean, you you can't reholster.

00:28:05.63
Ron
Right.

00:28:05.79
topsbunker
if If you get into a shooting situation, you're going to have to think about holstering it. ah Otherwise, like you said, you can blow your other hand off.

00:28:12.19
Ron
Yeah, exactly. But you do need to put it away when the man shows up.

00:28:15.93
topsbunker
Absolutely. and

00:28:17.03
Buddy
ah Yeah.

00:28:17.52
topsbunker
i Put the gun away.

00:28:18.22
Buddy
Yeah.

00:28:18.92
topsbunker
Hands up.

00:28:21.08
Ron
Well, keep them at at least, you know, up and exposed. I wouldn't put them in the air because you don't want to look guilty of anything. But just keep them open so that everybody knows that you don't have anything in it.

00:28:30.83
Buddy
That's a good point there. um i've I've heard of several first responders that, you know, go to a shooting situation with a cop. They might just be a bystander and then actually have the medical training and go up and and, you know, they're in civilian clothes and they're over there working on the policeman and they end up getting, you know, the next policeman on the scene, you smoking them because, you know,

00:28:53.48
Buddy
you know, they just don't know any better. They just know there's an active shooter. I got a policeman down. They see a guy above their, you know, friend or fellow law enforcement officer and, and they end up smoking them. So.

00:29:04.77
topsbunker
it's not a it's not a job I could do.

00:29:04.84
Ron
Well, it did happen a couple of years ago. i don't recall the exact case. It wasn't a civilian that was ah functioning as EMS or or a medical response. It was a civilian who saved the life of a police officer, but the officer was wounded.

00:29:21.53
Ron
And when the other responding officers saw him with a gun and saw a wounded officer on the ground, ah They killed him, and that was a tragedy. It doesn't happen often, but they did kill a civilian who saved an officer's life, if I remember it correctly.

00:29:29.69
topsbunker
Oh, wow.

00:29:35.38
Ron
And I don't remember where that happened, out in the Midwest or West somewhere.

00:29:41.09
Buddy
Yeah, it's tragic.

00:29:41.48
topsbunker
Wow.

00:29:42.36
Ron
Yeah, it is.

00:29:42.65
Buddy
It does happen. So I guess you just really have to be be careful and and, you know, like you said, you know, put the gun away when when ah the man shows up or after, you you know, you go just start doing the other things.

00:29:58.37
Buddy
So, wow.

00:30:00.98
Ron
Yeah, that was bad.

00:30:01.16
topsbunker
So, buddy go ah buddy, go ahead and switch gears again if you want to.

00:30:05.04
Buddy
All right, let's do it. So now that you've kind of talked about how to pick a ah shooting school or shooting instructor, let's talk about how a person would pick a personal off defense weapon or something to defend their home.

00:30:22.62
Ron
Well, depending on the home, there's a lot of good options, but it depends on your home situation. Are there children? Is it a single family home?

00:30:34.21
Ron
What are the walls constructed of? ah Who else lives? Is it just you and your wife? Are there dogs? That kind of a thing. A lot of people talk about, I'll just get a 12 gauge. Well, that's fine.

00:30:46.55
Ron
ah But what are you going to load it with? Buckshot or slugs? And if it is buckshot, um that's that's at least, or generally speaking, 930 caliber pellets coming out at high velocity.

00:31:00.22
Ron
and depending on on how rapidly they spread, which is a function of the choke that you have on it, that could be nine 30 caliber pellets flying down range and spreading fairly rapidly beyond a certain self-defense range.

00:31:13.96
Ron
to where you no longer have any confidence where they're going to end up. And that goes back to what kind of walls you have. Are there anybody else in the house? How close are to your neighbors? um That kind of a thing. there's there's And then if you choose buckshot, that's fine.

00:31:28.94
Ron
But there are certain loads out there that hold a much, much tighter pattern. And then it's you as a responsible shotgun owner that needs to go to the range. and test that pattern at various self-defense ranges.

00:31:41.98
Ron
Three yards, five yards, seven yards, 15 yards, longest hallway, um that kind of a thing. There are some loads that hold a fairly tight pattern if if you know what they what that load will do at a given distance.

00:31:55.93
Ron
So that's critical. um I used to hear the old canard that AR-15s, you can't use that because that ammunition over-penetrates.

00:32:03.28
Buddy
Thank you.

00:32:04.16
Ron
Well, that's just simply not true. depending, again, on ammo selection. The weapon was designed to have a essentially a heavier.22 caliber bullet that would tumble and create a significant wound channel fairly rapidly upon impact on the human torso.

00:32:24.29
Ron
In fact, it caused a problem because they tumbled so easily that when they hit the the limbs or branches of any foliage in Vietnam, the first Theodal War that would use them, they tumbled so rapidly they weren't hitting the targets.

00:32:36.39
Ron
So ah the the threat. So AR-15 is a good self-defense weapon, but I wouldn't use armor piercing, for instance. I might not use a heavier um grain bullet like a 64 or 72 or 77 grain.

00:32:52.70
Ron
I might use a 55 grain, which is a lighter 5.56 or 223 bullet and and and with a slightly open tip so that it it fragments fairly rapidly if it hits anything relatively solid. And again, it begins to tumble fairly rapidly when it hits the human torso, creating a larger wound channel.

00:33:12.66
Ron
and re resulting in greater chance of incapacitation and not over penetration because people get all scared by the foot per second number they hear associated with you know 27 20 inner feet per second but the the ammo selection is it's important there as well but the reality of it is what are you most likely to grab in the middle of the night and that's going to be a pistol And if you use to defend yourself at home, I would highly recommend a light on it and practice with that light and that pistol.

00:33:37.26
Buddy
Yeah.

00:33:45.64
Ron
So those are things that factor into it. Then you can get into caliber. I personally don't recommend anything smaller than a three eighty or thirty eight Special if you choose a revolver.

00:33:59.59
Ron
My caliber of choice, given the the progress of of modern projectiles, would be a 9mm. You get more bullets, easier to shoot, and it has greater stop.

00:34:13.58
Ron
I hate to use the phrase stopping power, but it has a greater chance of incapacitation with well-placed hits more rapidly.

00:34:21.96
topsbunker
And nine millimeters cheaper.

00:34:22.16
Ron
so it is Well, that's true, too, now that I've got to buy my own own ammo, now that I'm retired. That factors into it for sure.

00:34:30.22
topsbunker
You know, and Ron, you were talking about um what buildings are are made of. And I was before this, I was recently in ah the construction industry for multifamily, which is, you know, apartments and things like that.

00:34:40.57
Ron
Right.

00:34:40.79
topsbunker
And i can tell you, most people don't realize this, but when you're inside your apartment, you are just literally inches away from other people. You have You have a piece of sheetrock, which is what you call your wall.

00:34:53.60
topsbunker
You have a tiny bit of nothing insulation that's inside that basically your fingers can go through.

00:34:53.87
Ron
Yep.

00:34:58.39
topsbunker
Four inches of the ah three or four inches of that, you have another piece of sheetrock and that's their wall.

00:34:58.48
Ron
Right.

00:35:03.80
topsbunker
You know, I've seen videos of ah test shots where people have done high powered rifles with, ah you know, with pretty good rounds that people would would carry. and ah shooting through these types of walls. And if it does not hit a stud, a wood stud, they they've they were going through like seven walls. where You're talking about seven different apartments.

00:35:24.21
Ron
Yeah, yeah that that goes back to what we were kind of talking about earlier, finding quality instructor that will be honest with you about that and is going to give you the confidence to hit what you're aiming at at realistic self-defense distances, depending on your personal mission. Newer shooters, I've got them at three, five, seven yards maybe.

00:35:45.57
Ron
I'd like to push them back to 10 or 15, but what's your longest hallway? That kind of a thing goes back to that.

00:35:50.08
topsbunker
Right, right, exactly.

00:35:53.83
Buddy
That's a very good point.

00:35:56.09
topsbunker
That's so true. You're not going to be shooting somebody in a self-defense situation in your home 25, 30, 40 yards. It's not going to happen.

00:36:02.84
Ron
A civilian is not going to do it in public, generally speaking, unless you step up and try to stop an active shooter. And then you better know what you're doing.

00:36:10.76
topsbunker
Oh, yeah.

00:36:11.73
Buddy
Yeah, on on my recent trip up there to Pennsylvania, I took my daughter out to a range, and there was somebody on the left and the right of me. It was a Saturday, and there was a lot of people there. And, you know, these guys come in, and they've got five different – the guy to my right, had he had five different pistols, everything from a SIG to a Glock and different calibers and this and that.

00:36:34.41
Buddy
And he's taken his ah his target and putting it out there about – I don't know, 15, 20 yards and, and, and just not shooting well, you know, and um I'm sitting here thinking, man, this guy needs to, to back up.

00:36:47.04
Ron
Yeah.

00:36:50.87
Buddy
And obviously he hadn't gotten the training or maybe he did and didn't listen. So, you know, like you, like you've said before, it's, it's the basics. You got to learn the basics and you got to learn to do the basics well before you start going off to the advanced shooting and stuff.

00:37:07.12
Buddy
That's a great point.

00:37:08.71
Ron
Well, there's an evolution that a lot of shooters go through, and I did it too. i you know I'm confessing to this. i went to the academy, and back then it was 80-some-odd hours, and I took all that. And so when I started looking for ways to spend extra money, um and I wanted to get extra training, which you saw in my resume, I've gotten a lot of extra training on my own time and my own time.

00:37:30.57
Ron
i I look for advanced shooting. And then I look for advanced advanced. And then when I check those boxes, I look for like ludicrous advanced or super advanced. And there ain't no such thing.

00:37:39.25
Buddy
yeah

00:37:39.66
topsbunker
ah Ludicrous. I like that.

00:37:41.45
Ron
That's a Spaceballs reference. You got that.

00:37:42.67
topsbunker
Spaceballs.

00:37:43.05
Ron
like

00:37:43.33
topsbunker
Exactly. Yes, I did.

00:37:45.30
Ron
Yeah.

00:37:45.61
topsbunker
That's great.

00:37:45.62
Ron
so

00:37:45.69
Buddy
You just got more cool points. Yeah, there you go.

00:37:47.42
topsbunker
Yeah.

00:37:47.72
Ron
So.

00:37:47.99
topsbunker
yeah

00:37:48.48
Ron
And it's it's I've matured. I like to think. that i that I've realized is really just going back and learning efficiencies and nuances about the basics that I didn't, I wasn't in a place to really learn at the time, but I am in that place now. And that's what I'm trying to do.

00:38:08.93
Ron
There's it sights and trigger boys. That's all it is. But there's nuances to it that you can learn if if it's properly explained to you and and you're in a place where you're ready to hear it.

00:38:21.26
Buddy
Yeah, that's good point. You've got to want that to receive that training for sure.

00:38:27.25
Ron
Yeah. You've got be ready.

00:38:28.50
topsbunker
So so that's that's a lot of that's a lot of speech that that Buddy and I understand.

00:38:29.33
Ron
You've got you got to be ready to accept the fact that you're going back to the basics, which a lot of egos get in way of.

00:38:35.10
Buddy
Yeah.

00:38:43.74
topsbunker
For the average prepper survivalist, which is what our audience is, let's let's kind of break it down a little bit. a little bit cleaner as far as what, what you think they might get. You know, let's say if they, if they have a house or an apartment, something like that for self-defense

00:38:58.85
Ron
What do what do you mean by that?

00:39:00.69
topsbunker
ah for your, your everyday care, your self-defense weapon.

00:39:03.63
Ron
Oh, my self-defense weapon. Okay. Well,

00:39:08.59
Ron
i've I've shot and and I confess I own several weapons I don't shoot very much anymore. I train with a single action staccato. That's what I teach with and train with.

00:39:23.17
Buddy
Oh, Gucci.

00:39:23.42
Ron
I actually Yeah, well, it it sounds Gucci, but it's a fine weapon. It shoots really, really well. um I actually own another one that is of a carry size, another staccato of a carry size.

00:39:29.55
Buddy
Yeah.

00:39:33.11
topsbunker
you

00:39:34.31
Ron
But I got to be honest with you, I don't carry it very often because if I did get in a self-defense shooting, it's going to be seized in evidence for a while, you know, depending on the jurisdiction and whether or not it's a controversial shooting.

00:39:47.55
Ron
And that's just too expensive a pistol for me to have locked up in an evidence locker. So my day my everyday carry is a SIG P365 with a ah red dot on it.

00:39:52.42
Buddy
Yeah.

00:40:00.70
Ron
It's a hollow sun, a fully enclosed emitter red dot, which is my preferred type of red dot. I'm old enough to where I don't see the front sight very well anymore. I have presbyopia, or that is, say, reading glass syndrome.

00:40:15.29
Ron
And red dots are a real game changer if you properly learn how to use them. Now, if you grew up on iron sights, you grew up on equal height, equal light, front sight is your priority, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah and you And you stare at your target, and you get scared, you pull your gun out, you've got to do a focal shift back to your rear and front sight relationship with a focus primarily on the front sight if you're close enough.

00:40:41.06
Ron
You're doing these focal shifts going back and forth, and they're very rapid. I'll give you that. They happen in fractions of seconds. With a red dot, you don't do that, man. You stare at the threat and you stay focused on the threat. You never take your eyes off the threat and you put that that red dot up in front of your face and you're aware of that dot floating in front of your eyes between you and the threat in the same way that you're aware of a bug on a windshield.

00:41:07.08
Ron
When you smash a greasy bug on your windshield, you can't afford to sit there and stare at that bug for three or four miles or going to drive into a a tree. You've got to stare where you need to go.

00:41:18.14
Ron
You've got to stare where you need to drive the gun. And you're just aware of the dot. But that that takes some training. It takes a transition.

00:41:24.80
topsbunker
You know, that's that's a really, really good point, Ron. It really is because ah that, i believe, personally, for me, for shooting, I believe that is my my exact problem with getting ah with getting you know rounds on target. And I can shoot, you know, from, let's say, 10, 15 yards. i'm I'm shooting anywhere from four to six inch groups, and that's good for me.

00:41:46.70
topsbunker
Okay, but i but I understand what you just said. And I have that problem. I, I, when I look through my sites, which are iron sites, and that's what I'm, that's what I'm good at. I do notice the site and then, and then have to shift to notice the, the, the target and then shift back to the site again, you know, back to the site, front site, rear site, target, front site, rear site, target, you know, and it it, there is time delay there that happens when I'm, when I'm doing that in motion.

00:42:14.23
Ron
Not to mention time delay. There's also awareness of a changing situation delay. Is that guy got a phone or a gun? And if he has a gun, did he drop it before you pull the trigger because you were doing a focal shift back to your iron sights as opposed to keeping your eyes on the threat 100% of the time and just being aware of the dot?

00:42:32.17
topsbunker
Yeah. I should probably think about getting a red dot for my handgun.

00:42:38.07
Buddy
Yeah, Keith, he after a conversation we had over a burger and a beer a couple weeks ago, he got me convinced that that's – my problems with pistol shooting has a lot of – just what he said ah has to do with all of that.

00:42:54.91
Buddy
So he's got me convinced that I need to be a red dot shooter. So I'm probably going to come up there and take some instruction from him very soon.

00:42:58.73
Ron
well Well, I got to stress, if you buy the red dot, don't do what old Ron did, and that is buy one, put it on your pistol, and go out and try and teach yourself and wonder why it didn't work.

00:43:13.42
Ron
Because if you're focusing on your sights, when you put a dot on your pistol, even if you understand how to zero it, when you slap that pistol up in front of your face, the first thing you're going to do is shift your focus back to the dot, which defeats the purpose.

00:43:27.80
Ron
And then you'll shift your focus back to the threat, then back to the dot. And if if that's what you're going to do, keep your iron sights.

00:43:34.41
topsbunker
Right, right.

00:43:35.15
Ron
There's no point. So you need quality instruction and transition before and particularly if you're going to carry it and defend yourself.

00:43:36.86
Buddy
while

00:43:42.49
Ron
Don't slap it on your gun and go out and conquer. And don't slap it on a police officer's gun and tell them to go out and police. That's criminal. That's morally and in my opinion, negligently the way to treat that.

00:43:55.56
Ron
Don't do it.

00:43:56.55
Buddy
it It kind of reminds me of when I made a transition from regular iron sights, you know, back in the day with the to, you know, start shooting scoped up rifles, and i you know, start my sniper journey and you had to relearn how to shoot.

00:44:05.68
Ron
Right.

00:44:15.83
Buddy
And there was a lot of different things that, you know, fundamentals are the same, but, you you know, still there's some difference in, in basically the equipment. So that's a good point.

00:44:25.33
Ron
Well, you, you may, you, I don't know if you know this or not, you probably not old enough to to remember it historically, But the first red dot on a rifle or or a firearm, for that matter, was on a CAR-15 that was used in the Sante raid where special forces hit a prisoner war camp in North Vietnam. It turned out to be a dry hole, but it was a brilliantly executed raid.

00:44:49.88
Ron
And that dot was occluded. Do you know what I mean by that?

00:44:54.78
Buddy
ah No.

00:44:55.71
topsbunker
I do not.

00:44:56.69
Ron
Okay, you slap that rifle up in front of your eye and you look through the tube and you're looking at a, it was a much bigger dot than what you had on your M16A2. ah You had a CCO or or something to that effect or EOTech.

00:45:10.21
Buddy
yeah

00:45:11.07
Ron
So it was a much larger dot, but you could not see the target through the tube. It was occluded, meaning you could not see through the tube. ah You're thinking to yourself, well, how in the world am I going to shoot anything? Well, you have to be two eyes open.

00:45:25.35
Buddy
Yes.

00:45:25.60
Ron
And your non-dominant eye, and you probably know this from Sniper Train, your non-dominant eye perceives everything downrange.

00:45:25.75
Buddy
Okay. Yes. Yeah, that makes sense.

00:45:33.99
Ron
Your dominant eye picks up the dot and your brain merges the images. It's called the Binden, B-I-N-D-O-N, aiming concept. Binden, I can't remember his first name, was one of the founders of Trijicon.

00:45:43.05
Buddy
Yeah.

00:45:48.20
Ron
So

00:45:48.47
Buddy
Yeah. everybody wants to

00:45:49.09
topsbunker
Right. um And for so.

00:45:50.19
Buddy
Everybody wants to squint the eye, you know?

00:45:52.50
topsbunker
So for the layman, the way I describe it for the for the layman out there, if you're trying to figure out what we're talking about.

00:45:52.73
Ron
you can't.

00:45:58.37
topsbunker
Let's say you have a firearm that has a laser on it that puts a dot on a person's body, an actual dot on a person's body.

00:46:05.84
Ron
Right.

00:46:05.86
topsbunker
It's like that, except it's virtual. you're you're ah Your dominant shooting eye sees the dot. Your other eye sees sees the target and your brain merges the two. So it looks like there's a dot on the target, but there's not actually one.

00:46:20.18
topsbunker
Does that make sense?

00:46:20.84
Ron
If you're properly trained on using a visible laser or a red dot, it's the same, relatively the same concept because people, when they get a visible laser, The mistake they make is they get sucked into where the laser is.

00:46:33.26
Ron
And you've got to keep your eyes open and keep aware of your situation and then put that dot, that visible dot on the threat and and send it.

00:46:41.49
topsbunker
I've shot with ah with a ah ah pistol with a laser on it. I couldn't shoot it for shit. I didn't know what I was doing. I was like, what what's going on here? I'm putting the dot where it's supposed to go. it's The bullet's not going there.

00:46:52.39
Ron
Was it zeroed?

00:46:53.95
topsbunker
but I don't know. It was a gun rang with some friends, you know, back in the day.

00:46:56.41
Ron
Yeah, yeah. It's got to be zeroed in the same way that you're your red dot on your M16 had to be zeroed. I mean, that's a given. But i don't know if you ever did this in the military and in training, if they properly trained you on how to use that red dot um on your assault rifle. But if if you get behind that rifle and you snap that thing up, somebody would put their hand in front of the optic, the front of the optic so you could not see through it.

00:47:19.60
Ron
But you could still see the dot and your non-dominant eye is wide open and you're still perceiving the target that you need to shoot. and And that's ah an easy field expedient way to demonstrate for them how the brain merges the image.

00:47:33.15
Buddy
Yeah, we had some advanced instructors from guys from the mar Army marksmanship ah team teach us stuff like that.

00:47:39.25
Ron
Yeah. Yep.

00:47:40.14
Buddy
But prior to that, man, they gave us the equipment and – some guy who was, you know, had used it before back in another unit or something would, would come up and go Oh yeah, this is the way it works. And, you know, you were, you really didn't get the instruction you should, you should have with that until that, you know, until I got to the, the army's shooting team there that, that taught a great class on it. Yeah.

00:48:06.08
Buddy
It was terrible.

00:48:07.42
Ron
Same thing happened in law enforcement.

00:48:07.83
topsbunker
Yeah.

00:48:08.90
Ron
When when ah rifles began to filter out into our world after the L.A. shootout, when we we began to get them, we we put optics on the rifles and didn't didn't know how to use them.

00:48:16.43
Buddy
Oh, yeah.

00:48:23.01
Ron
We we zeroed them We knew how to zero them. We got down behind them and you know did a slow administrative zeroing of the rifle, but we still aimed with the dot as opposed to maintain situational awareness, keep two eyes open and just be aware of the dot landing on the target at a given distance.

00:48:38.21
Ron
If it's a greater distance or a smaller target, you know better than I do with your background that you do have to slow down your trigger press. You have to have a better ah connection to the to the weapons platform. That's all well and good, but you still got to stare at the target.

00:48:53.65
Ron
So anyway,

00:48:55.63
Buddy
That's a good point.

00:48:55.82
topsbunker
Yeah, and and distance does make ah a big difference because a laser is a perfect straight line. A bullet does not fly at a perfect straight line.

00:49:02.80
Ron
No, no, it doesn't. But i I don't know about you, but when I was growing up, I was always told by my daddy and his buddies and my uncles, bullets rise. Well, that's clearly not true. That's a doubt that's defiance of the law of gravity.

00:49:15.72
Ron
you know, you launch it end up at an angle, but yeah they don't rise. But anyway, yeah, that's I was misinformed back in the day.

00:49:22.16
topsbunker
So we need... ah um'm So, buddy, we need to do a little bit of ah podcast magic. I want you to say, so, hey, Ron, what ah what's your everyday carry? Because I stole your thunder before.

00:49:32.77
topsbunker
I wasn't actually asking Ron that that question.

00:49:34.14
Buddy
Oh, okay. Yeah, that's cool.

00:49:34.97
topsbunker
i was asked i i was ah I was articulating something being totally different.

00:49:35.16
Ron
Oh, I'm sorry.

00:49:37.58
Buddy
Yeah. Okay. so

00:49:39.30
topsbunker
Oh, boy.

00:49:40.79
Buddy
So, Ron, ah we ask this of everybody that comes on in this you know and this kind of genre, what we talk about with weapons and stuff. So I want to know what your everyday carry is.

00:49:51.59
Buddy
I want you to pocket dump. I want you to tell me, and what do you carry on a day-to-day basis?

00:49:54.48
topsbunker
and Okay.

00:49:56.63
Ron
On a day-to-day basis, I carry a SIG P365.

00:50:02.30
Ron
It holds 12 in the magazine, one in the chamber. um They do have 15 round magazines, but I don't use it. It makes it a little bit harder to hide. I'm not a huge person. Occasionally I will carry a Glock 48 with a steel magazine that holds 15 rounds instead of the factory plastic mag that holds 10, but it's a slim profile. It's a fine platform, very easy to hide. um,

00:50:28.51
Ron
I used to carry a Glock 19, but they're a little fat and a little bit harder to hide. So I tend to go with the slimmer um nine millimeters that with magazines that allow me to carry more ammunition.

00:50:40.88
Ron
and i And I preach have a spare magazine, but I got to confess, I often don't. because the magazine capacity on these slimmer profile pistols has gotten to the point where 12 or 15 or even 10 plus one in the chamber, I have confidence that I can get out of whatever trouble I'm in and and get away from there or or if necessary, maybe fight to a truck gun that's of a larger caliber and greater capacity like a rifle.

00:51:09.25
Buddy
So I'm going to stop you right there because what I'm hearing you say is something I preach all the time is you're basically carrying your your everyday carry pistol in order to break contact to to either get away from the situation or get to your truck gun for you know a bigger fight.

00:51:09.53
Ron
Yeah.

00:51:28.55
Buddy
is Is that what I'm hearing?

00:51:30.80
Ron
Most of the time. And I'll be honest, as a former law enforcement officer, ah that causes me a little bit of guilt because I still have a strong urge if I was ever faced with a situation that required more aggressive response, like an active shooter.

00:51:49.01
Ron
um' I'm going to neglect, I'm going to regret, I should say, I i would very much regret not having a spare magazine or greater capacity, but that hasn't happened yet. So I'm rolling the dice that yes, my priority is to break contact, obviously get my wife or my grandchildren, if they're with me to safety and, and then go from there.

00:52:08.59
Ron
But yeah, But yes, as so a former law enforcement officer, I can make an argument for greater capacity, assuming it doesn't negatively impact my ability to conceal it because I don't open carry. I don't I just I think that's stupid.

00:52:22.36
Buddy
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of open carry. I see it all the time. I'm in an open carry state. And I just, I mean, just for me, if I see somebody open carry, you know, just doing threat analysis, you know, they're the biggest threat right away, even though they might be on my team, you know.

00:52:42.34
Buddy
And that goes into my whole situational awareness thing. And I don't know, man. I just, I think concealed carry is the way to go. And not...

00:52:53.54
Ron
Well, I agree. we We're all products of our own experience. And I worked in an urban environment and an open carry would be very easily taken from an unaware or ah somebody who can't necessarily defend the weapon from a takeaway. So I consider that a detriment.

00:53:09.05
Ron
But again, I don't live out in cow country. Well, I kind of do now, but I never grew up there and I never worked there. So it might be appropriate out there in cow country. I can see...

00:53:20.97
Ron
utility of it, but it just doesn't work for me in my world.

00:53:24.49
Buddy
Well, I know Keith does this and and every time he's on his property, he's carrying. um When I'm out in the wilderness here or on my land, I will carry just because, I mean, the snakes, you know, ah there's there's critters out there.

00:53:39.00
Ron
Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:41.33
Buddy
there's There's cats and snakes and few bears are starting to hang around, which is weird. We've never had them here. Now we're catching them on trail cams and stuff, but you know, just for personal defense, uh, we carry something, you know, when I was, I was in East Texas for a while and it got to where the first couple of times I went on property, you know, we were 18 acres, uh, of just raw land that would butt up to a boy scout ranch. It was like, I don't know how big the boy scout ranch was 18,000 acres or something. It was huge.

00:54:15.63
Buddy
And, uh, You never knew what was coming up. We ran across some alpha pigs and copperheads and this and that. So after a while, I i learned my lesson.

00:54:26.68
Buddy
You know, it's something that's wise. But so what else do you carry besides your, you know, your pistol or or whatever you have?

00:54:36.24
Ron
I carry a fixed blade most of the time. I've got a background from some of my mentors that come out of DevGuru in the combative and and and they got it from the Syok Kali people.

00:54:48.64
Buddy
Yeah.

00:54:49.48
Ron
ah the The defensive use of a fixed blade targeted thrusts, not slashing attacks. I don't have a background and in knife fighting with slashing being the primary method of employment.

00:55:01.20
Ron
their their primary method of employment is targeted to vulnerable areas um that can debilitate an attacker fairly quickly by causing rapid exsanguination, know, like into the carotid or into the heart or into the femoral or something like that.

00:55:15.73
Ron
So I carry a fixed blade. There's a guy out your way, as a matter of fact, his name is Harley Elmore. He makes the rat blade. I also carry a blade made by ah Bill Rapier, who was a career dev group guy and a

00:55:29.12
Buddy
Yeah.

00:55:29.14
Ron
Good man, good instructor, good Christian. He makes a really nice blade, and he's heavy into that combatives as well. ah Kyle DeFore has been a mentor mine in that regard, and those are the two blades that I carry most of the time.

00:55:44.04
Ron
I've got a few others that I'll play with every once in a while that are high quality as well, that are recommended by those people and the people that mentored them. but primarily it's a rat or it's one of the Amtac, American tactical blades, Amtac blades.

00:56:00.68
Buddy
Yeah, I carry myself, like i'll I'll carry at least a fixed blade or, ah excuse me, of a folding blade, action blade or ah actual ah government issued switch blade.

00:56:14.42
Buddy
And then other times I'll carry a fixed a smaller fixed blade, nothing crazy, but it's good to have. what What else would you carry when you're out there besides a blade and a knife?

00:56:26.23
Buddy
I mean, is there anything else?

00:56:27.04
Ron
A flashlight, a small flashlight. I usually have one on me wherever I go, even during the daytime because I do go inside. And if I go inside and power is lost or I'm somewhere where the light is diminished or or non-existent,

00:56:43.00
Ron
I wanna have something besides an awkward phone light. So I'll carry a small flashlight. Streamlight is my go-to. One of those pencil thin ones, the long ones or a pencil, kind of a pencil, maybe bigger round as a pen that's a little bit shorter, couple inches, couple of three inches long.

00:56:56.49
Buddy
Oh, yeah.

00:56:59.37
Ron
I'll carry one of those. um In terms of ah defending myself, those are what I'm going for. Obviously I carry a phone for emergency contact, but you know, if the, if the The feces hits the oscillating device and we we lose all that.

00:57:13.34
Buddy
ah Yeah.

00:57:15.20
Ron
That's kind of useless.

00:57:17.40
Buddy
Yeah, I agree. So, yeah.

00:57:19.91
Ron
ah One other thing, though, if I might mention it, because I'm i'm a big fan of it.

00:57:20.96
Buddy
Okay.

00:57:25.22
Ron
And um i ah I assume it's good kit. I believe what they they sell. There's a company called EMP Shield.

00:57:33.07
Buddy
Yeah.

00:57:33.39
Ron
And I put one in my truck and I put one in my wife's Jeep. So if there is a ah significant solar flare or we were hit with an EMP, it protects the electronics.

00:57:44.18
Ron
So if you've got an older car um that's vulnerable to that kind of an attack, I mean, a newer car that's vulnerable to that kind of attack, that's helpful. And I have it on my generator, my home generator as well.

00:57:54.75
Buddy
Yeah, we've we've talked about that on the prior episode we talked about shows. And I've...

00:58:01.27
Ron
Okay. Okay.

00:58:04.72
Buddy
You know, i think we won't know until it happens.

00:58:08.00
Ron
Right, right.

00:58:08.16
Buddy
It's one of those things. Yeah, I hear all that. You know, they've had engineers come out and all that's not going work. It's there's nothing you can do. know, you know, I've had, you know, other people that I've watched and, you know, on on YouTube, you know, you you've got subject matter experts all over the place out there.

00:58:26.03
Buddy
So, but I guess we will find out if it it does happen.

00:58:26.06
Ron
Right.

00:58:29.25
Buddy
So.

00:58:29.93
Ron
like I can promise you that millions of our tax dollars have been spent on hardening government buildings

00:58:36.04
Buddy
Yeah.

00:58:36.16
Ron
With that and technology and whether it's theirs or not, I don't know, but they, they believe it works because they're spending millions of dollars to harden critical infrastructure at the military and government level.

00:58:47.45
Ron
So I don't know. I don't know if the MP shield works or not, but I believed what they told me and I believe they're advertised believe my discussions with them. so I put it in my truck and my wife's car and our generator.

00:58:58.91
Buddy
Yeah. That's, that's kind of the way lean, you know, I don't have it personally, but I, I want it's on the, it's on the thing to, you know, that needs once and, and, uh, nice to have kind of list I have. And so it's, it's on there.

00:59:15.37
Buddy
Uh, the other thing is, uh, what about medical? Do you carry any medical on you?

00:59:20.08
Ron
Yes, I carry it in a car. Obviously, when I'm on a range, I have a med bag and then I have a blowout kit on my on my battle belt for sure. But I also carry it in a car because I've been fortunate to have attended some some training as a company. I forget where he's from. Dark Angel Medical. You probably heard of him.

00:59:38.41
Buddy
Yeah.

00:59:39.10
Ron
I've done a couple of their classes and and then I've done a couple of live tissue classes. I don't wanna get into the name of the company because I don't wanna draw the attention of animal rights activists, but these are are switched on military people that do live tissue with pigs.

00:59:55.55
Ron
It's all humane. There's vet techs, there's vets on scene, and we practice stopping bleeding with the the equipment that we use on our, on, in our med kits on, on, on live animals. So I've, I've been fortunate to do it. So i'm I'm a firm believer and I carry a med kit in the truck.

01:00:14.64
Ron
And then I carry obviously a blowout kit on, on my training belt all the time.

01:00:20.53
Buddy
Yeah, that's it's a piece of kit that I've added to to my everyday carry as of a couple years now. that you know I'm carrying a tourniquet and a blowout kit, the basic stop-the-bleed stuff. and That's on me at all times.

01:00:35.67
Buddy
I have something called an ankle kit that's got basic stuff on there.

01:00:38.05
Ron
Yeah.

01:00:40.31
Buddy
And then, ah course, the truck. you know and We could talk we could talk ah probably a whole other episode on what we carry in our our vehicles and stuff and trucks and stuff. I know people and and myself probably fall in this category of, of setting that thing up to it's slash gun truck slash ambulance, you know?

01:01:00.52
Buddy
So, but I, you know, as you know, in our prepper world for this podcast and, and being, you know, prepared for things to happen.

01:01:11.25
Buddy
We, we try to war game and figure out, you know, our, our, biggest threats out there do threat analysis and, uh, you know, every day, you know, the, the basically every day, your biggest threat day in and day out, it's going to be cause you're in your car.

01:01:24.33
Ron
Thank you.

01:01:30.44
Buddy
Um, it's going to be an auto accident. You're either going to come upon one and you see one, I would say you probably see one depending on where you live. um weekly, monthly, you know, there's, there's auto accidents all over the place and, and not necessarily injuries in auto accidents, but you're going to see one come upon one and, or hopefully you don't get in one.

01:01:55.54
Buddy
So I think it's, it's smart to carry, you know, something in your, a more robust kit into your car. So, and yeah,

01:02:03.06
Ron
yep that's for sure i i've not gone the ankle kit yet i i kind of feel a little bit guilty about that but the way i dress there's usually not enough room around there um but it's there's a another tourniquet that's made that's real popular now on you tried the snake staff um i can't remember the full name of the company snake staff

01:02:24.66
Buddy
No. ah Yeah, I know what you're talking about. i I have bought some stuff from them and not not a lot of stuff.

01:02:35.38
Buddy
i'm I'm a refuge medical guy. Actually, i'm I'm a contractor for them, so I kind of stick to their stuff.

01:02:37.61
Ron
okay

01:02:42.25
Ron
Right, right.

01:02:42.35
Buddy
But there that refuge medical ankle kit, um and Fieldcraft Survival has one. There's a few of them out there that have them. The refuge one works out real well.

01:02:51.53
Ron
Yeah.

01:02:53.91
Buddy
It's low profile. Unless you're wearing skinny jeans, you don't see it.

01:02:57.66
Ron
Yeah.

01:02:58.60
Buddy
Um, I, you know, we, we dress a lot alike. So, um, I wear mine ah just anytime I'm, I'm in, you know pants, uh, I don't wear it with shorts, but, know, I'll have it within reach with shorts and, it's, it's out there.

01:03:14.95
Buddy
So.

01:03:15.16
Ron
Yeah, I'll carry the tourniquet in a pant pocket, but I don't use the term skinny jeans because that's not what I wear, but I do wear my pants tapered.

01:03:19.58
topsbunker
Yes.

01:03:23.95
Buddy
Okay. Yeah.

01:03:24.66
Ron
yeah So, and that's not that's not a a secret way of saying skinny jeans because I don't wear skinny jeans.

01:03:28.70
topsbunker
Check one, two, check one, two.

01:03:31.51
Buddy
Well, I can't wear skinny jeans because I'm a, I'm a portly guy.

01:03:31.80
Ron
but

01:03:34.23
Buddy
So I have to, uh, I like to say I'm European cut.

01:03:34.39
Ron
sorry

01:03:34.71
topsbunker
Check one, two.

01:03:39.10
Ron
There you go. Okay, I'll buy that.

01:03:41.62
Buddy
So, uh, yeah, but, uh, yeah, the, the metal, the refuge hat, and I'll, this is a shameless plug for refuge. I love their ankle kit. They also have what they call a slick kit.

01:03:50.49
topsbunker
You

01:03:52.58
Buddy
And, uh, you can buy a slick kit with a tourniquet.

01:03:54.26
topsbunker
guys there?

01:03:56.42
Ron
Yeah.

01:03:56.86
Buddy
Your slick kit will fit in a cargo pocket, your back pocket.

01:03:59.63
topsbunker
Hello, hello?

01:04:00.34
Buddy
In the other pocket, you know, of your jeans, you can stick a tourniquet.

01:04:03.11
topsbunker
Hello, hello?

01:04:03.18
Buddy
Like, for instance, last night I ran, I did a thing last night. we We did some security work for something, and an event that was, you know, they're popular right now at this time where we're recording.

01:04:18.05
Buddy
and

01:04:18.08
topsbunker
can't hear you, what?

01:04:20.47
Buddy
Can you hear me?

01:04:21.60
Ron
Yeah, yeah i hear you.

01:04:22.53
topsbunker
It is.

01:04:23.41
Buddy
Hey, Keith, can you hear?

01:04:25.35
topsbunker
Yeah, I can hear you.

01:04:26.70
Buddy
Okay. Okay.

01:04:27.53
topsbunker
Can you hear me?

01:04:28.74
Buddy
ah Yeah, you're low, but.

01:04:31.00
topsbunker
Well, we had some, we have a very, very bad storm come through. Right. As we were starting to end the podcast, Rod had texted me and said, Hey, this is going to blow big.

01:04:41.95
topsbunker
And then all sudden all the power went out and shit hit the fan. So I got my,

01:04:45.15
Buddy
Yeah, we saw you're offline. I just wondered if since we were still online, if it would, i was trying to stretch it out to see if it will still keep the recording.

01:04:51.16
topsbunker
where you still Were you still talking?

01:04:53.96
Buddy
Huh?

01:04:54.69
topsbunker
Were you still going? Were you still talking?

01:04:56.09
Buddy
Oh, yeah, we're still weak we're still trucking on.

01:04:58.52
Ron
Yeah, we're still we're still golden, I think.

01:04:58.73
topsbunker
ah Okay, got it. Okay, so right now I have no power to the house. And what I've done was I've i've got my battery backup generator, my solar generator hooked up to the Wi-Fi.

01:05:11.15
Buddy
Okay.

01:05:11.72
topsbunker
um So everything is very, very strange. So um um we're definitely going, it's it's trying to connect satellites through a very bad storm right now.

01:05:19.21
Buddy
Okay. So is it still recording on our end? So when we...

01:05:22.57
topsbunker
it looks It looks like it is right now. I'm going to stopping it um right now.

00:00.00
Keith
on And we're on. Okay.

00:02.60
Buddy
All right, Ron. ah Next question is, what is your everyday carry? what What do you carry every day, maybe in your pocket, you know in in a bag, in your fanny pack, you know when you start wearing that again?

00:13.70
Ron
ah

00:15.22
Buddy
um

00:15.80
Ron
of

00:16.23
Buddy
Just hear your everyday carry.

00:16.55
Ron
my my

00:18.27
Buddy
Yeah.

00:19.00
Ron
My everyday carry for a firearm is a SIG P365 with a closed emitter red dot. I carry it usually at the appendix, occasionally at the three o'clock,

00:33.70
Ron
inside the waistband in both cases. I also carry a fixed blade knife. um I usually don't carry a folder unless I'm just out doing some work on the farm and I need i need a blade for doing just normal work. But if it's defensive, I carry fixed blade.

00:51.40
Ron
um I carry a flashlight, a small one, just to have a source of light other than a phone when I'm out and about in case we were to lose power and I was indoors or something like that.

01:04.18
Ron
So that's that's kind of it. I mean, obviously I have the phone too, but um I don't consider that essential for everyday carry.

01:13.76
Buddy
Now, is your everyday carry the same for when you're on your farm ah compared to going into, let's say, Walmart or wherever you shop? Is it the same or is it little different?

01:23.22
Ron
if It is, yeah, it is for convenience sake because i do carry on the farm. I carry when I'm out cutting, cutting the grass. I carry when I'm out, you know, sawing up logs that fall down in the hayfield or, or anything like that, because it's just us. And so I do carry on the farm. and I carry when I'm out hiking on the farm, but it's just for convenience sake more than anything else. And, and I don't, I don't want to carry one of my expensive guns and lose it to evidence if I ever have to use it.

01:54.58
Ron
So I carry the SIG 365 or occasionally I carry the,

01:55.32
Buddy
Oh yeah.

02:00.13
Ron
Glock 48, slim profile, easy to hide inside the waistband, and both extremely reliable.

02:08.63
Buddy
So yeah, it seems like a staple.

02:08.92
Keith
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I do. My, my, my, uh, my pistol, my, uh, my folder knife and my flashlight. Those are the three things um'm I've always got on me at all times.

02:22.83
Ron
Yeah, yeah.

02:23.02
Buddy
So So what, obviously you're going to carry in your vehicle a little different. You're going to have some additional gear. what What kind of gear do you have in your vehicle that you can can talk about?

02:36.38
Ron
Well, I've got a ah full medical kit in there. When I say full medical kit, I mean um combat gauze. I've got pressure bandages, Israeli bandages.

02:47.42
Ron
I've got tourniquets. I've got trauma shears. I've got gloves. I've got all that kind of stuff. I've got chest seals. I even have Sam splints in the truck bag.

02:58.07
Ron
um The training belt, I'll have a blowout kit that has some of that stuff. but not nearly as much. And obviously it's much smaller in volume. um And then occasionally I'll have a tourniquet in my pocket or in a cargo pocket.

03:14.59
Ron
um That's, but I don't, I'd be honest you, I don't carry one all the time. I should, but I don't. I do carry one all the time when I'm out using the chainsaw because I've heard, and I even had a friend who damn near lost his life when his chainsaw hit something and and bounced and and cut them deep. And if his son hadn't come running out and put a tourniquet on him, he would have died.

03:36.12
Ron
So um yeah, I carry one when I'm, when I'm using the chainsaw, but that's, that's kind of what I, what I have every day either.

03:36.22
Buddy
wow

03:43.35
Ron
And I do have a truck gun occasionally when things, when the headlines are crazy and the social temperature is even higher than it already is. I may carry an AR style pistol in the, in a, in a backpack,

03:56.78
Ron
in the car with a mag in the magwell, but not one in the chamber. And it's got a folding stock, a law folder on it. And then I'll have a spare magazine for that as well.

04:07.79
Buddy
Okay.

04:08.55
Keith
Nice. Yeah.

04:10.35
Buddy
Yeah, it sounds pretty standard to what what I carry too.

04:10.45
Keith
Outstanding.

04:15.66
Buddy
Now, my my truck is basically a half of an ambulance. The other half is a gun truck. So I might have some what I call a speedball in there with some extra ammo and things like that.

04:21.66
Ron
Yeah.

04:24.75
Ron
yeah

04:25.91
Buddy
But you know umm um'm I used to throw a lot of stuff in there. But you know the more stuff you have in there and you... you kind of alluded to it a while ago. You don't want to lose a, uh, an expensive piece of a kit or, uh, some equipment, maybe a weapon to, you know, somebody or, or, you know, to police evidence, maybe somebody breaks while you're in a store, somebody breaks in and steals your truck gun. I mean, there's a lot of things that happen, but, you know, I think we all just,

04:58.67
Buddy
yeah you It sounds like you're very smart about your whole what you choose to carry, so that's important.

05:05.71
Ron
Well, that's an important point about, you know, having somebody break into your your truck. I don't leave guns in the car unless I absolutely have to. um Occasionally, if I have to go get some physical therapy for something, I have to leave it in the car, my pistol in the car. But its I'm living in a fairly, there's no such thing as a safe area, but I'm living in a lot nicer than I used to.

05:25.77
Ron
um The truck gun, again, it's not all the time. that The truck rifle is not all the time. it's only occasionally because I have that same fear. I don't want my weapon to get in the hands of some You know, dirtbag who's going to use it to commit crimes or commit homicides. So I don't do it all the time.

05:40.27
Ron
But the pistol is almost always on me. um you're you're You're going to be rolling the dice to ever meet me or or run into me anywhere, including on my farm where I'm not armed.

05:52.50
Buddy
That's good. So, okay. one One last question here. What is the biggest threat in the area, your day-to-day biggest threat that you you might have?

06:05.51
Ron
ah ah Well, right now, I don't have ah biggest threat in where I'm living now. I'm out in the country. I live on 50 some acres and we're surrounded by um Trump signs and American flags. So I don't really have a big threat out here now. But there's a highway running by my house.

06:24.76
Ron
You don't know who's going by. And I've lived long enough and and my career has shown me. the evil that, that people can be capable of. So my fear, I wouldn't call it a threat, but my fear is the, the drifter, the wanderer, or somebody who breaks down or parks on the side of the road and thinks we're an easy mark because we're in a farmhouse on a big plot of land with nobody around us. And they think that maybe we were vulnerable.

06:50.76
Ron
And I've got, uh, I've got dogs as an early warning system. However, they don't bark unless you break in with a bag of chips in your hand. And, uh,

06:59.58
Buddy
That's good point.

07:00.34
Ron
Oh, they're idiots. Five German shepherds in an Australian.

07:01.49
Buddy
Yeah.

07:01.81
Keith
Hey, I'll bark if you got a a bag of chips. So we're there.

07:04.68
Ron
Yeah. yeah Yeah.

07:05.94
Buddy
Oh, yeah.

07:06.80
Ron
So but I don't have any real threats in my immediate area, but I'm not far from Harrisburg. So the city is a city. um

07:14.76
Buddy
so yeah

07:15.44
Ron
York is to my south and that's a city as well. And they've got issues like any city does. But I don't have any real threats here per se. Occasionally I have trespassers that that are out here scouting for a good place to hunt turkeys or deer.

07:30.66
Ron
and they don't bother to come down to the house to talk to me and ask my permission. So I ride through the field every once in a while. and And if I see them, I make sure they see me coming. So they got an opportunity to get out of there. But if they choose to confront me, I'm armed.

07:45.15
Ron
So I don't consider that a threat though. It's just, it's just something's out there.

07:50.79
Buddy
So from a prepper standpoint, what kind of I'll strike i actually shift gears a little bit here from a prepper standpoint, what would you if you were doing a threat analysis of things that could happen to you guys out there not necessarily, you know, a human threat?

07:55.63
Ron
Okay.

08:06.02
Buddy
What what's the biggest threat you would have ah as far as a non-human threat?

08:12.38
Ron
Well, natural disaster, obviously, um, we're at the end of a, uh, of a power line and and our power goes out, um, not frequently, but often enough to where we've taken steps and installed a backup generator, this whole house, um, and, and 500 gallons of propane. So if we lost power for any significant period of time and we reduce the load, we've got, we we're going to be good for a while.

08:39.99
Ron
Um,

08:40.31
Buddy
That's smart. Yeah.

08:41.47
Ron
Yeah, we're spring fed, um but we would lose the power to the pumps.

08:43.72
Buddy
Nice.

08:45.89
Ron
So I would have to, you know, get buckets of water and bring them in the house as opposed to pumping it into the house. um i do have i do have emergency food supplies laid up.

08:54.11
Buddy
Okay.

08:58.15
Ron
I bought that some time ago. i just chose Patriot Food Supply. I don't know what else out is out there. I'm sure there's other good companies out there, but I've got a few weeks worth of that.

09:10.81
Ron
ah set up. um I'd be honest with you, have not ah put it in a garden, though I probably should, but that's going to be a lot of work because we got deer running around all over the freaking place.

09:25.10
Buddy
Oh, yeah.

09:25.34
Ron
So that's going to have to protect whatever we grew.

09:28.59
Buddy
But that there's your source of protein, so there you go.

09:31.11
Ron
Well, yeah, I mean, if i I don't hunt anymore, but if I had to, I know how I grew up hunting. So I've got plenty of of protein. but I don't have much in the way of of a garden for growing any vegetables. I just haven't i just haven't done it. That's me being lazy.

09:47.06
Buddy
All right.

09:47.19
Keith
Yeah, if this was an episode of Doomsday Preppers that these used to air on, no was it the the Animal Planet or whatever that was way back when?

09:54.12
Ron
said Yeah. yeah

09:55.43
Keith
ah They would have rated him at like ah ah props for heaven this and that and blah, blah, blah, blah. blah They would say, you're we our experts think that you're good for 30 to 60 days.

10:07.44
Keith
i I don't think so. I think he's good for longer much longer than that.

10:11.22
Buddy
Yeah, with all the wildlife out there. shoot

10:13.21
Ron
Well, that's true, but ah assuming that the scavengers, the people that have not prepared in any way, shape, or form, if they start coming to take what we have, ah between my wife and I, we we're we're in good shape, but if one of us gets hurt, you know that we could be overrun.

10:29.03
Keith
It's going to be a fight for sure.

10:30.33
Ron
It will be a fight, for sure.

10:31.68
Buddy
Yeah, I like your odds better than most people's because I've met your wife and I know she shoot you she can shoot, man.

10:31.81
Keith
Yeah.

10:32.04
Ron
Yeah.

10:38.48
Buddy
so and And you said something that's very important that people, um maybe they don't know what they don't know.

10:40.54
Ron
a

10:47.32
Buddy
When the shit hits a fan in a larger city, you're going to get that drift. It's a natural line of drift. and I live along one of them too, to where people are going to, you know, 72 hours when that supply chain shuts off and cuts down, uh, where they're not going to get that, you know, be able to go to the store, and you know, every two or three days and get what they need.

11:09.56
Buddy
They're going eat out of their pantries. Then they're going to start getting hungry. Well, then they're going to start drifting out to the country because they think everybody in the country is going to have something to eat, you know, and maybe be an easier mark, like you said.

11:22.07
Buddy
So you're going to see that, that, that drift come out there.

11:22.63
Ron
Yeah.

11:25.61
Buddy
So, I mean, at least i I think that's the biggest threat for myself. So I see it happening for where you're at as well.

11:33.49
Ron
Well, that's true. And even good people are going to get desperate.

11:37.50
Buddy
Good point.

11:37.75
Ron
Even people would normally not be someone that you'd be afraid of and wouldn't even think twice, would never even consider stealing, they're going to become desperate. And so that's going to be exponentially greater number of people that potentially could harm you if you if you did prepare and do have something that they don't have.

11:55.05
Keith
I consider myself a good person, but I can tell you my family would not starve.

11:55.16
Buddy
Yeah.

12:00.35
Ron
Yeah, well, there you go.

12:00.58
Keith
It's not going to happen.

12:01.19
Ron
See, there you go

12:02.70
Keith
Yeah. So it is what it is. But ah ah Ron, ah how about you give us a couple of your contacts, let the people know what you're doing and where they can find you, which would be awesome.

12:15.66
Keith
And we'll also put them in the show notes as well.

12:15.80
Ron
go. Sure. Well, my mike private companies are Citizens, that's plural, Citizens Defense Training, CitizensDT.com.

12:29.62
Ron
That's for civilian classes and generally at the preparatory level, introductory level, I should say, or level two. and don't like to use the word advanced very much, but occasionally I'll use it in the police business, which is police defensive firearms training, PolicedFT.com.

12:47.45
Ron
I will use the word advanced because if you don't say advanced, cops won't sign up because they already think that they're squared away. yeah We talked about that earlier. They're not, but but they think they are. So I put advanced in there to get them to sign up.

12:56.66
Keith
Yeah.

12:59.16
Ron
And then I school them when they get there that there is no such thing as advanced shooting. um my My email address is ron.flowers at citizensdt. That's C-I-T-I-Z as in zebra, E as in echo, N as in Nancy, S as in Sam, deltatango.com.

13:17.27
Ron
or ron.flowers at policedeltafoxstratango.com. So that's where you can find me on the web and all that kind of stuff. I do travel. um I used to travel a lot. I traveled nationally for NRA Law Enforcement Division and for another organization called Inlefia, National Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors Association.

13:38.79
Ron
But I finally walked away from all my part-time jobs after 17 years with one of them five years with another. And I focus on my own business and my own my own farm. So that's how you reach me.

13:50.26
Ron
And I will travel, but it's I'm not going to travel far unless it's for a friend or a contract.

13:51.39
Keith
i

13:57.76
Buddy
Yeah.

13:57.96
Keith
yep and we'll put we'll put all that stuff in the show notes including your facebook ah page for your ah for your companies as well yeah okay

14:03.06
Ron
That's on there. Yeah, I have two Facebook pages, one for each company.

14:08.46
Buddy
Well, I'm going to work on getting you out my way. I've got a couple ideas, so that way I can to spend some more time with you and pick your brain a little bit more.

14:18.30
Ron
Well, you have help anytime.

14:18.27
Keith
yeah it was good to I'm sorry go ahead

14:21.28
Ron
I was just glad to help you anytime. You know, we're buddies from OEF.

14:25.81
Buddy
That's true.

14:26.39
Keith
Well, it was good to have you on.

14:26.65
Buddy
Yep.

14:27.23
Keith
It was good to meet you as well. And yeah, man, we're going to have you on again if that's okay with you.

14:32.81
Ron
That's fine. Thank you, Keith. It was pleasure meeting you and a real pleasure talking with both of y'all.

My Prepper Brothers and Sisters…

….. It doesn’t take a specially trained CIA analyst or a cop to see the world as it is and know that it’s a dangerous place filled with unbalance mentally ill individuals or just plain evil people. We feel safe and secure in our cozy little homes and that all-encompassing cocoon we call our neighborhoods. But as Preppers, we know all too well that it’s just an illusion. That’s why we prep… that’s why we take some time out of our busy lives to understand the writings that we see on the walls and make ready ourselves, and our loved ones, and our friends and families for that very real possibility of physical danger. But No Worries… We got this right?

Stay Prepped… Stay Happy….

Thanks for Listening… And, Goodnight…




Head Shot

Keith Otworth

Host
Head Shot

Rhonda Triggs

Host
Contributor

Buddy

Co-host
Contributor

Jeremy

Co-host